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I've just bought an old wood construction Enterprise which has no built in
flotation. Any suggestions as to where I might find custom designed
buoyancy tanks or designs I could use to refit this boat? I have been
advised expanding foam is a way to go but I would still need to enclose it
somehow I am told. Any suggestions?
Thanks very much,
Gary

Gary:
As you know trapped air is what buoyancy is all about so probably the best way to accomplish this would be to build air tight boxes under the seats. Remember water weighs about 63lbs per cubic foot so you will need the appropriate cubic footage to offset the boats weight. If the boat displaces one cubic foot of water you need one cubic of trapped air for the boat to stay afloat at the gunnels. Sorry for the physics lesson but many people don't understand the principals of floatation and displacement. Hope this helps-------------gary

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FRACTIONAL RIG 1

Hi,
I'm intrigued by your product, but I'm concerned about one thing. Our
boat is a Pearson Ensign, which has a fractional rig and a fairly small
mast (24' above the partner, and about 3"x4" oval). The forestay
attaches about 3 to 4 feet below the top of the mast, and the backstay
attaches to the top of the mast.

When the mastmate is run up the main halyard, I'm concerned that my
weight (200 lbs) will be pulling down on the slight mast bend between
the two stays. Do you know of other boats that are similar that have
used your system? Does this description seem risky to the mast?
Thanks in advance for your time,
Tim

Tim;
I appreciate your interest. What I can tell you is that while living in San Francisco many of my friends used the mast mate on folkboats and golden gates, both fractional rigs and had no problem. Also, in the 14 years of selling the mast mate I have never been told of any problem particular to a fractional rig. As a safety measure you could secure a line to the bow of the boat and take the other end aloft with you and secure it to the masthead. This would lessen the strain on the forestay. Hope this helps. Remember there is a money back guarantee, so if you tried it and found it unsuitable your only cost would be return shipping.------gary

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question: I AM RESTORING A 32 FOOT LUHRS THAT HAS MAJOR TERMITE AND ROT THROUGHOUT.I AM USING PRESSURE TREATED THREE BY TENS,ENCAPSULATED IN GLASS,FOR THE STRINGERS,AND I AM GLASSING THEM TO THE HULL.AFTER LOOKING AT YOUR ANSWER TO SOMEONES QUESTION,I AM WONDERING IF I ERRED IN NOT LEAVING THE TOP SURFACE OPEN.I USED MATTING AND POLYESTER RESIN,AND WILL USE THE SAME TO GLASS THEM TO THE HULL.SHOULR I LEAVE THEM AS THEY ARE,OR GRIND THE TOP OFF.THANKS FOR YOUR ADVISE.

KEN

Normally one would want to have the stringer fully encapsulated.
However with pressure treated lumber I have no experience in how well the
resin sticks to the chemically treated wood. If you tap around lightly with
a hammer and get consistent solid sounds you're probably OK, but if you get
hollow sounds the glass is not sticking to the wood and since the strength
comes from the wood and glass bonding together, you may should do it over
with well dried untreated timbers. Sorry if this turns out to be bad news,
hope not----g

question: I have a 1961 42' Norseman. I'm a residential carpenterand I have a million questions for you folks, starting with epoxy resin compared to pollyester resin, what is the differance?

It's all in the chemistry but from a practical sense epoxy is better,
stronger bonds and harder, but is a bit more sensitive to environmental
conditions when applied. It is considerably more expensive than polyester
resin which is the reason that most fiberglass boats are laid up with
polyester. Epoxy resin can be used over polyester but not visa versa. Nice
boat you have and feel free to ask questions as needed.-------gary

I am currently working on my first plywood runabout and have read about different methods of sealing the wood.

1. A mixture of linseed oil and turpentine applied in many coats and allowed to soak into the wood.

3. Epoxy resin which I am really trying to avoid as me and fiberglassing/resins are not good friends.

I know that there had to be a pretty good method prior to epoxy resin coming out and was wondering which was the best to use.

Also, do you seal the frames/battens/chines prior to the applying the plywood? The boat will be used in fresh water only on rivers and lakes in the south and will be painted bottom and sides with brightside decking(hopefully).

The first boat I built was a plywood runabout kit boat and I've been
messing around with boats ever since, so be careful, you can be bit hard by the
boat bug. Unlike solid timber which needs a penetrating finish that allows
the wood to breathe and can happily be finished and protected with a variety of
oil finishes and sealers, plywood, however, whose surface is a thin veneer
allowing limited penetration needs a good tough surface finish such as paint
or epoxy sealers with special attention to the edges where water penetration
will cause delaminating. Normally with plywood construction, the outside
butted seams are sealed with fiberglass tape and the overall surface treated
with penetrating epoxy , then painted. The interior can simply be painted
with a good oil or alkyd based paint including all framing and support
timbers. Fresh water on bare wood trapped in the right condition ie. no air
circulation to dry up the moisture, will cause rot, so a good sealed painted
surface can save you a big headache later on. Good luck and ask more as
needed and send me a pic of the finished product---gary

If you use the light mesh glass tape, you can usually just feather the
edges in but sometimes you need a little filler, like bondo auto body
filler, to get the feather just right. You also can glass the whole outside
for a sealed surface but to me that is overkill and the less glass the
better for if fresh water gets in-between the glass and wood
you get that good rot environment. For best results put a coat of resin
on the surface to be glassed and let it dry. Then put the next coat on laying
the glass into the wet resin, let dry . Sand lightly and add successive
layers of resin until the surface is smooth.
Fair off , use a penetrating resin on the unglassed plywood and paint---go to
www.rotdoctor.com for info on products--------go

question: Hello..I am trying to convert an old Chris Craft lancer from an OMC drive to a Mercruiser Alpha. I know I need to plug the hole and re cut the cut out for the mercruiser shape..but what would you suggest as far as filling the hole in the transom..I want to make sure I do it right and it is strong enough..the other questions I have are. locating the new cut out for the mercruiser drive. what is the best way to locate the cut out location and make sure everything is going to line up..any and all help with this project would be greatly appreciated..thank you!

I assume this is s fiberglass Chris Craft, but if it should be wood you would need to replace inner and outer planks where there is a void between the new cut out and the old one. With fiberglass transoms there is a plywood filler in between the outer and inner layer of glass. From the inside you would cut out a rectangle 1/3 again the size of the old cutout making sure not to cut through the outer fiberglass only through the inner glass and the plywood. Fit in a new piece of plywood with no cut out and seat the plywood against the outer hull glass with a couple layers of resin soaked matte glass . Then, after filling the joint gaps with epoxy filler, fiberglass, using biaxial glass, the inside of the plywood well overlapping, 6-8 inches, into the existing inner glass. Then cut out the new hole and fill in the outer hull glass where necessary. It's a lot of work but it is the only way to maintain the integrity of the transom. Good luck---gary---ask more as needed

biaxial glass is a layer of diagonal roving glass sewn onto a layer of matte glass, available at fiberglass supply stores

question: Hi, your response would be respected and apprectaited thanks! I own a seafearer viking 5.5m power boat with a inboard sterndrive. The problem i have is transom rot, the back of the transom at the top is flat accross and goes down with one piece to the bottom v. All the transom from the bottom at the bungs to both sides, around the motors transom shield and up to and around the tow hooks in the transom is all hard and sounds solid when you hit it. BUT last week i pulled an aluminum slip strip with a curled corner edge off the back top corned egde of the transom to reveal a crack along the edge,in some spots up here for like 1-2 inches down from the crack when you push on the transom it moves in a few millimeters. I can see that the back fiberglass sheet has room in bettew itself and the wood. I used an air grinder and opened up the crack a little at the worst spot and the wood is dark brown and real soft and likes to brake into little pieces - i only dammaged like 1/4 of a 5 cent piece of the wood but it seems rotten! i looked inside the tansom its all hard and fine but at the top on the side where the crack and softness is worst on the outside there is a hairline crack the the wood right at the top for about a foot but its not very important at all its not load bearing or anything. My question i suppose is i'm lost, can i prevent and repair this without destroying the outside fiberglass on the transom, say like a stop rot treatment and seal it with epoxy filler or epoxy resin then filler as i believe the rest of the transom is solid it drives fine. or should i maybe cut off the top 1/2 foot out side fiberglass and repair the top side of the wood ????

Don't mess with the outside fiberglass, all repairs from inside. Fresh water got in through the crack and since the transom is a fiberglass sandwich with plywood in the middle, a perfect environment for wood rot results. From what you said about the results of your sounding the transom,only the upper part appears soft. So I would cut through the inner fiberglass across the whole transom about 1ft down from the deck. Hopefully you will not find further extended rot, but if you do the same procedure is followed. After removing all the rotted wood, cut a new piece. Bed the new piece into a wet dual layer of biradial fiberglass cloth holding it firmly against the existing outside transom glass. Biradial is a layer of matte glass sewn to a layer of matte roving glass. Once that sets up, do the same on the inside making sure to lap the new glass well over onto the existing hull, like 6-10 inches worth. Normally fiberglass hulls are laid up using polyester resin , epoxy is too expensive, but check with the manufacturer and use whatever they used. When overlapping onto the existing hull, first use some Jabsco epoxy stripper to roughen up the gel coat surface so you get a good bond with the new resin.

I hope this proves to be the limit of your problem, but more often than not, unless caught very early, the rot extends further than first thought. Also if the glass has lost its bond to the wood and there are air spaces, condensation can develop in these voids and begin the rot process. So if there are any doubts about the rest of the transom you are better off to drop the outdrive, pull the engine and do the whole shebang, plus you could check the engine stringers as well---good luck and ask more as needed-------gary

question: Hi Gary - Great site you have going here, glad I stumbled (thanks to good 'ol' google) across it! I have answered most of my questions, but there is one left....

I have just obtained a Hartley 16" (google it, there are thousands of the things!) - it is a plywood home-built (like most) - apparently 2 owners ago it had a great home - the last owner took really good care of her until he tried to change the boat trailer - alone - in his back yard...

What I now have is a leaky boat - and it looks as if one of the peives of plywood has a 12" crack, penetrating right through - he has tried to glass it to no avail...

I am going to remove the glass Junk and get back to wood, and Thought I had three options....

- Somehow epoxy just the crack (with some penetrating stuff), add a few more layers of epoxy (ply - no movement needed - in the middle of a peice) - and paint it up (don't like the colour anyway!)

You have already conned me out of option 3 - Any other options or any suggestions? I have good access in and out (the floor easily removes, there is also no flotation installed right now)....

This is my first boat (my Dad was a commercial fisherman and also grew up on an island, always with boats, but hasn't the knowledge on woodwork - he is a steam engine engineer!) - and I am an IT guy who likes to 'play' - I'll give anything a go.....

Interesting boat. You got me wrong, I choose # 3. Glassing it over with considerable overlap is the way to go, both sides, inside and out if you have inside access. Sounds like the previous attempt wasn't done properly for there is no reason not to get a good seal between the plywood and glass.In a marine environment, glass over ply is fine, glass over solid wood is not.--I would fill the crack with epoxy filler (Bondo) before you glass over it.Have fun----gary

question: Gary, I have a 77 Correctcraft centerconsole. Wile replacing the engine, found the mounting holes in the stringers somewhat discolored (Dark Brown). The stringers are encapsulated in fiberglass. While checking the mounting holes for condition I drilled several test holes, wood at bottom part of stringer is dark brown, top part golden. some water also came out of lower test holes. It would appear that the bottom 1/4 of the stringer has some degree of damage. the damage also appears to run the lenght of the engine cabin to the stern. About 9ft I have heard of a product "Rid Rot" but do not know whether this would be ok to use to restrenten the bottom part of stringers or are new stringers the only way to go?

Yup, been there done that--actually did a deposition in a law suit against Bayliner for that very problem i.e.. encapsulating green lumber in fiberglass leading to rot. I am afraid there is no easy fix----git rot is strictly for cosmetic repairs---so you have to bite the bullet and remove the stringers. When installing the new ones, fiberglass them heavily, i.e. biaxial glass, to the hull but don't totally encapsulate the wood. Also get good dry wood--preferably fir ---oak does not glass well. While you're at it, check the transom as well, often these were sandwiched with a wood core. Tap on it and hope for a sharp sound not a dull thud.-----gary

OK, the original wood does appear to be a light colored wood, not sure what
kind though. When you say don't totally encapsulate the wood, can you
elaborate?

Yes, just come about half way up the stringer with the glass. Fill the sharp angle of the wood to the hull with a thick slurry of glass fiber and resin forming a cove and then lay the biaxial glass over that so there is not a sharp crease in the glass and just carry the cloth up the side of the stringer , not over the top. You want fresh air to get to the top portion of the wood where the engine bolts go in-----see attached

Biaxial glass is a layerof matt glass attached to a layer of heavy roving glass making the lay up simpler. In glass lay up for strength one alternates matt layers with roving layers------ask more if needed---g

question: I own a 31 ft. 1967 Owens Express Cruiser, "The Captain Ron", with double-hull mahogany planks and I am interested in fiberglassing the hull. It's too expensive for me to keep it at the marina and I would much rather get a trailer and keep it in the backyard and avoid the swelling and contracting of the wood hull. The wood is in good condition because the previous owner was an experienced boat mechanic, but I'm sure that wood doesn't last forever.

How should I go about fiberglassing this boat? Should I remove the outer layer of planking and then fiberglass, or would that weaken the structure? Is it best to just fiberglass over everything?

The former owner, Ron, was very knowledgable, but this is all new to me and I more accurately reflect the movie version of Captain Ron. I rebuild cars and trucks, and used to work with computerized fuel injection systems...I have two Corvette Tuned Port Injection units to install on the Chevys in the boat at some point in the relatively near future. I have a lot of experience with passenger cars, commercial trucks, and even heavy equipment, a large array of tools and assets, including labor, and a desire to learn about boats.

Get a fiberglass boat. Glassing over a wood boat sets up conditions for massive rot and doesn't work because you are combining two antagonistic materials. The wood needs to move with stress and expand and contract, the fiberglass is rigid and inflexible. The only way it works is if the fiberglass is so thick you are actually creating another hull which makes the wood hull incidental but also adds so much weight that the boat is encumbered. Either learn to live with a wood boat or get a fiberglass one that better meets your needs--------gary

question: i have a 1963 o'day javelin with a dry-rotted transom. can it be repaired at a reasonable cost? thanks - tom

Shouldn't cost too much but very cheap if you do it yourself. Pretty simple--cut out the inside layer of fiberglass covering the whole wood transom, remove all the wood trying not to damage the outside layer of glass. Put in a new piece of marine plywood attaching it to the outside glass with resin saturated fiberglass matte. Then reglass the inside broadly overlapping all edges. Go to it----gary

question: Gary-I am restoring a 68 26' plywood CC. New marine ply hull and bottom. In an effort to protect the bottom are there other products than epoxy and glass to protect and seal the bottom? I'm in Texas in fresh water. Hot & humid.

With plywood bottoms the greatest vulnerability are the joints where the glue edges are exposed so I have usually just used fiberglass tape on the joints and used penetrating epoxy on the rest.----------g

question: Hi, it is really great to find your site. My husband built a wooden skiff and we are having a really hard time with the epoxy drying. It is the 2 part epoxy; some areas dried very hard and others are still tacky after winter storage. My husband has developed a bad allergy to the stuff, so now I have to try to finish. What I would like to know is if I can put a new mixture over the tacky stuff? I will test the mixture to make sure it will dry - perhaps it wasn't mixed correctly or sufficiently. Thanks for any advice. If he builds another boat, is there any substitute for sealing the joints besides epoxy? Leslie

Kudos to your husband for building a boat and to you as well for pitching in. There are many ways to build a boat where in epoxy or fiberglass need not be used. There are traditional boat building methods to seal joints as well as some high tech polysulfide caulking materials that work well. To your specific problem, putting a new coat over the old, mixed a little hot ( a little more hardener than called for), should do the job but make sure you test your supply first, it maybe bad. Also the temperature should be at least 60 and the humidity low. Good luck and feel free to ask more---by the way--vinegar takes epoxy off your hands--------gary

Thank you Gary; I am working on it now, but somehow it still doesn't seem to be setting correctly even though it is fast hardening epoxy. Hardened in the cup though, and was smoking! I guess I'll keep trying. I really appreciate your help; my husband is ready to make it into a planter, but it took so much work and in NJ it's a big hassle getting home built boats registered, so I am not ready to give up without even floating it once. Regards - Leslie

All right, smoking epoxy, way to go. It should go off, keep it warm. Where are you in NJ? Send me a photo of the boat----g

question: I am trying to aquire a 23', 1959 Chris Craft day cruiser from my father. It has been sitting in a barn in Ohio for the last 6-7 years. He is reluctant to let me have it because I live in Pensacola Fl with warm, salt water. The hull is plywood, and is in good shape, but I would like to fiberglass it to prevent any rot or deterioration. Is this necessary? Is this a practical plan for an amatuer? If so, are there any books that are worth while to assist me in my progress? How much does it usually run to have something like that done by a professional? Thanks alot.

Nice boat. The warm salt water is far less of a problem than the warm freshwater and the high humidity climate you live in. Salt water kills rot and thus the only reason you might want to fiberglass the bottom is if the boat was going to sit in the water for a long period of time for the glass makes a more uninhabitable surface for the many salt water creatures who like the taste of wood. Fiber glassing is a messy business but takes minimal skill to do it properly, best done with the boat inverted so gravity is your friend not your enemy. Your environment is particularly hostile to wood boats because there is no cold weather to deter the growth of the fungus that causes wood rot and the warm moist environment sets up perfect conditions for the fungus to thrive. The biggest deterrent against rot, besides salt water, is fresh air circulation which evaporates the moisture in the wood. If you take the boat, when not in use, you must store it in a shady covered area, protected from the rain and with plenty of air circulation i.e.. no tight fitting boat cover. If you take on the stewardship of this boat you are taking on the responsibility of maintaining a classic irreplaceable vessel and I give you fair warning, there is a special place in hell for those who fail at this. I am sure your father would concurr.-------gary

question: Thank you for your promt response to my last quetions! I recently spoke to my father, and I am relaying some new questions. First, if I were to keep the boat in the water for about 8 to 10 months out of the year, but then pulled it and gave it a new coat of anti-fowling paint,would that be enough to prevent the marine critters from attacking the plywood hull and possibly take away the need to fiberglass the hull? Second, the boat has only had a marine spar varnish on the upper wood. Are any of the new polyurethanes better at lasting for longer than one year?

In that water , I would say max 6 months between paint jobs and during the use of the boat if any bottom paint is rubbed off, fix it immediately . Because of the strong UV in that climate Varnish doesn't last long and the new polys aren't any better. What many boaters do who bring their boats from the north to the south is to paint over their varnish to protect the wood than when they return north sand off the paint down to the varnish and revarnish.-------g

question: Hi Gary, My name is Chris Merriam and I am working on restoring a 1955 Paul Luke 34' Yawl. The previous owner had fiberglassed the hull and I have been pulling it off. I am about to the water line working from keel up, and in my zeal some of the Mohogany has pulled off with the epoxy. In a few spots up to 1/4". 1st question; Is there a filler I can use on those spots or should I be thinking of replacing planks? The other issue being all the seams and most of the fasteners are filled with fiberglass. 2nd question; I built a bow frame green house over the boat and I am worried about humidity levels as we go into Spring and Summer. What are some safe Levels?? Thanks in advance, Chris

Well, you sure got your hands full. You can fill those split outs with a thickened (use fine sawdust) epoxy mix. You'll have to get all the stuff out of the seams so you can recaulk, but don't worry about the epoxy over the fastenings. Hopefully the seams still have cotton in them but if not you will need to do that as well. You need to retain the bevel > in the seams so take some care in cleaning them out. Sometimes you can use a router with a batten guide or a small skill saw. You can't control the weather but you can control air circulation throughout the boat. As long as you have good air circulation you don't have to worry about rot. Good luck, you have my respect and sympathy. She'll be a beauty when your done---gary

Gary I am builging a grand banks dory and I am using spruce for the bottom and side planking, my question is can I fiberglass over the spruce planking. Thank you

Nope, you can't glass over planking because the glass has no flexibility to move with the expansion and contraction of the wood and over time will crack and separate. Plywood or other laminates can be glassed for they do not expand and contract with moisture. Nice project, send a pic--g

question: Thanks for the information on the fiberglass over the spruce planking on the grand banks dory, what would be the best way to seal the seams with cotton or with a caulking I think is called 5200,I have all the frames built now and I am having the planking sawed at the mill,I am also wondering if I could fiberglass the frames where there is not too much movement in them and treating the planking with pentox.I will send pictures as I go along and thanks again for the question you answered for me.ART

You have taken on quite a project, a labor of love. When building a wood boat it is best to stick with traditional methods. Modern materials such as fiberglass, epoxies and polysulfides like 5200, have some uses on wood boats, but they are few and are quite specific. These materials tend to stifle the woods ability to breath and can trap moisture and accelerate the growth of rot fungus. There is no good use for fiberglass unless it is over plywood ie. not on the ribs. 3M 5200 in the seams is a disaster. It acts like a glue and is impossible to remove when repairs are necessary and prevents the planks from swelling correctly. The seams should be slightly beveled outward > and caulked with cotton string and covered over with a traditional seam compound ( Interlux makes it}. Traditionally wooden boats are built to be fixed as needed and so that parts can be replaced easily over time. I will continue to assist with answering your questions but if you live in a boating area, it would be helpful for you to find an old timer with wood boat building experience to advise you and show you some of the tricks when you get stuck.---------gary

question: Dear Gary, I am getting conflicting information on the suitability of pressure treated wood (e.g., 2x4s etc.) for replacing structural parts of my boat. Have you heard any problems with using such material and covering it in fiberglass fabric and resins? Thanks for any help you can provide. Tom

Yes, don't do it. In covering wood with fiberglass the bond of the resin with the wood fiber is critical for if there is a bad bond and condensation can develop than rot soon follows. The chemicals used to preserve the wood interfere with this bond. Just make sure if you are glassing over wood other than plywood , that it has a low moisture content ie. thoroughly dried so rot spores can not form. Plywood is by nature low in moisture so glassing to it is no problem as long as the edges are well sealed.-------work hint--vinegar gets resin off your skin-------gary

Gary, are you aware of any articles on the matter? And ways to minimize future problems. Reason I ask is we are undtaking work on a boat that had work already started in pressure treated and cannot easily recover. Also, I've seen reference in epoxy supplier material to use penetrating epoxies if pressure treated used. Hope there is a way around it. Thanks for the time and guidance. Tom

Hi There,
I have available to me, a 69 Chris Craft Cavalier 28'. The hull (
Plywood ) is in need of real repair.
I have heard of fiberglassing over the wood inside and out.
A few people have suggested that the boat is used as a form only for the
fiberglas and does not have to be sound.
Could you please advise.
Thank you
Bob Pero

Bob;
With fiberglass over wood boats of that era , the wood gave the structural strength and the glass was merely an add-on for a finish. To fix the Chris craft properly and maintain some value, you must replace the seriously damaged wood. To fiberglass the damaged areas inside as well as outside would do little good unless you used so many layers of glass that you would in effect turn it into a fiberglass boat, too expensive and impractical. You probably have a small antique boat association in your area and I am sure you would get plenty of good advice and maybe even some expert help. Good luck-----------gary

question: OK, I hear over and over again about fresh water seeping between the fiberglass and the plywood and causing rot in boats constructed of glass over ply. I am considering building a boat with this type of construction(am I nuts or what!) SO, what can I do to construct my boat so I won't be plagued with this problem down the road ?
Thanks for your thoughts,
Norm

Norm:
Don't feel bad, done correctly and keeping a close eye on it over time, glass over ply can work just fine. Usually there is little problem with the hull itself, but it is the deck and cabin house that are most subject to glass separation, water penetration, and subsequent rot. I would tend to glass the hull and use lagging compound with screen cloth to cover the decks and cabin house roof. Lagging is like Elmer's glue, it sticks well and expands and contracts with the wood and is water proof after painting. It is water soluble until painted which makes for easy cleanup, but one would not use it on the hull itself because it may peel with constant submersion. Since it is used for heating pipe insulation, lagging can be bought at any heating or plumbers supply outlet. When glassing the hull have no sharp corners, soften all corners for good glass adhesion. I did the hull on a small runabout I built and saw the boat 10 years later and all was well with the glass and wood. Good Luck--------gary

Thanks, Gary

I have seen many of the older wood boats around the SF Bay with aerbol
covered decks, so I know that this doesn't look bad, rather
"traditional" actually. What about glassing the interior of the hull as
well. I was thinking about building "clinker" style with ply strakes
(3/4") and then layering the strakes with moderately thick mat and a
final light glass cloth so I could preserve the "clinker" appearance of
the hull. I am concerned that if the glass is not structural in and of
itself, a typical misjudgment with a dock would result in cracking and
leaking and... and... well, we all know what comes next. My thought on
glassing the interior was to use 3/4 ply frames sawn to take the laps,
and doubled with 2x4 sanwiched (and cross fastned)in between(fitted and
shaped to match the strakes as well) to take the planking screws. Then I
was intending to glass the whole frame assembly, but perhaps this is
overkill?? I am presuming that the deck/hull joint should be made in the
traditional wooden boat construction manner and that one runs some kind
of a cap trim around the edge where the arebol meets the bulwarks and
cabin sides? I also rember seeing a common practice in the bay area of
mixing or sprinkling sand on the final top coat over the aerbol to make
a non-skid deck. When masked off it looks good, and seems to work pretty
well.
Thanks for your interest and quick reply.

Norm:
In my opinion glassing a lapstrake hull is asking for problems. With all the edges you are dealing with you can't help to get some air bubbles which later turn to leaky areas. For the same reason glassing the interior of any type hull is a bad idea. Put the money you would spend on glass and resin into a good grade of marine ply. Also sand in paint for non skid is OK but wears down easy and is hard on the knees, better yet is sprinkling Epson salts into the paint, let dry, wash off with fresh water, paint again. You get a soft non abrasive nonskid surface. I worked on boats in the bay area for the last 20 years, just recently moved to Maine. I lived on a 36ft wood ketch down at Pier 39. If you need hands on advice see Larry Hitchcock. His shop is down the street from the Bay View Boat club in China basin. Finest boat craftsman I've seen.--------------gary

Hi Gary,
Obviously I am coming from ignorance here. So it is acceptable practice
(read boat will last 20+ years) to build lapstrake ply boats with marine
ply and just do a good job of sealing the exposed edges, coat it with
good marine epoxy paint and that's it? This is good news if I have it
right!
I am thinking along the lines of a double ended 23-27 foot deep keel
design (you know the style; Colin Archer, Atkins, etc. etc.) I am not in
the bay area anylonger my self, now up near Portland Or. but planning to
do most of my sailing around the San Juans. I would love to build
something like Wm.Garden's "Seal" but that's probably too much of a
project for me. If you have any suggestions for good designs that would
fit this type of building technique I'd be gratefull to hear your
thoughts.
Best Regards,
Norm

Norm:
Actually in the 70's many Chris crafts were built using lapstrake ply and they were just painted and did fine. You just need to seal the edges with epoxy. But if you are interested in a double ended type design, a lapstrake building method is probably not the best or at least far from the easiest. Because of the sharp curves involved the lapped planks are very difficult to fit. The best method, especially for a novice, is strip planking. I suggest you go to the wooden boat site and check their books for sale around design and construction methods. www.woodenboat.com, also check out www.boatbuilding.com.. Also check at the wooden boat school in Port Townsend, they may offer some courses that would be helpful.-----------g

question: I have recently acquired a 21.5 ft wood fishing boat. It is possibly 100 years old and Cuban in origin. It has a live well approximately 3' sq. ahead of the small cabin with 3/4" holes in the bottom. the boat is fairly sound. some planks need replacement. The deck and toerail are very weather worn. It was floating 2 years ago and sat on the river bottom for a while before being refloated . The planks seem to be cypress, or pine, the deck as well. all the joints are calked some are open. some of the planks are loose. The transom is definitely mahogany. The original power was probably make or break inboard ( gone now ). the shaft and hand made prop are in good shape. All the woodwork I can do with little trouble. What about filling all the joints with glass putty and putting a layer of cloth and resin over everything ? If I trailer it and use it in tampa bay how would restoring it to original condition with the calked seems work out being out of the water periodically? Wouldn't the planks shrink and reopen the joints? I know very little about plank type boats. last year I built the "Sweet Pea" by Howard Payson. Stitch and glue plywood and glass. Any help or comments would be appreciated.

thanks much, Joe Chappell Tampa Fl

Joe:
Sounds like an interesting boat, worth saving. The problem with glassing a carvel planked boat is that with this type of construction the planks are meant to flex which of course the glass does not which will lead to glass separation. To do it as well as can be done you would have to let the boat thoroughly dry out, turn the boat over, reef out all the seams and glue in wood splines and then sand the whole boat down to bare wood. You might be better off keeping it traditional with the caulked seams and leave it in the water as much as possible. With your climate, the planks will surely dry out and shrink if she is left high and dry for very long, but they will swell quickly when returned to the water. A good electric bilge pump would help. I think I would try this first and if it didn't work out, go for the glassing. Good luck and feel free to ask more questions.----------gary

My friend purchased a 1968 36' Chris Craft. It's been in the water for over 30 years. It is plank on frame construction with lapstrake sides and plywood bottom. I haven't seen any dry rot - but the wood inside and out has over 20% moisture content. I would like him to dry the hull and get the moisture content down to 12% and then coat the wood inside & out with epoxy and maybe even put some fiberglass cloth on the bottom. Is there any problem doing this? And if it is OK - What would be the best way to dry the Hull.
Thanks
Phil

Phil:
Listen to the old sayings, leave it well enough alone and if it ain't broke don't fix it. Seriously, if the boat is sound the way it is you will gain nothing by glassing it inside and out, in fact you could harm it. Encapsulating wood in fiberglass sets up a perfect environment for rot should any moisture including condensation reach the wood. Drying out an older wooden boat that has been happily swollen from being in the water 30 years would cause severe problems. I know your intentions are good and you thought the glassing would preserve the boat, not true. The only way it works is if you put so many layers of glass on the outside of the hull that you have produced a glass hull with the wood boat as the mold. I see this on old wooden lobster boats here in Maine. I have worked on a lot of Chris Crafts of that vintage and have found them to be well built and in need of little hull repair. Have fun with your classic boat.-------------------gary--ps.solid wood takes a long time to reduce moisture content but plywood, do to its laminating limiting moisture intrusion, dries rather quickly.

My friend has a 1946 Mathews, about 40 foot in length.
It has a double planked hull. It will be a
live-aboard only ( the engines will be removed ). It
has been out of the water for almost a year as repairs
have been made to the hull. The boat is now ready for
bottom painting, but we are wondering about
fiberglassing the bottom with West System. We have
received very mixed advice around here about how to do
that, or if we even should. We are wondering about
the Pros and Cons of doing this. What should we know
about this before continuing??
Thank you in advance for your advice.
TERRY ,Long Beach, California

Terry;
Those are nice boats, I've worked on some. Normally, if the boat were to be used, I would say don't fiberglass, mainly because the glass has no flex and separates from the wood which does move as a boat is used and once separated fresh water gets in and rot develops. But since you are just using it as a live-aboard, and the boat will not return to being a working vessel, a heavy layer of glass would stop any leak potentials and solve any toredo worm problems. It would be an expensive process and from that stand point I don't know if it would be worth it, on the other hand, it would probably hold its value better that way as a live-aboard. So, if you got the bucks go for it, if not, no big deal just have a couple good bilge pumps.----------------------------have fun, living aboard is great----------gary

I should have asked you the first time...; What is
the story on calking? If we do fiberglass the boat,
can we use Bondo for calking, or can we just shine the
whole thing on, as the West System will fill the gaps?
Do you have any thoughts on this?? Also, if we do
the "normal" thing by painting, what is required in
the way of calking? We have received a lot of
conflicting advice on this point also. (It seems like
there are as many ideas on how to do something as
there are boats in the water.)
Thank You,
TERRY

Terry;
When they fiberglass the bottom of planked boats the normal procedure is to reef out the old caulking and glue in wood splines, but since your boat will not be under stress you could probably get away with reefing out the old caulking, put in splines where the seems are over 3/8 wide and fill all seams with thickened west goo. Traditionally the seams of those boats are caulked with cotton with seam compound over the cotton. As far as dealing with fixing the bottom the way it is, since it has been out for a year and the seams have probably opened up, recaulking with cotton would be difficult. If it were my boat and I was on a limited budget, here is what I would do. I would get a couple of gallons of roof patch tar, stuff it into all the bottom seams, paint the bottom and put it in the water with a good bilge pump. Let it sit for a week swelling up and then check for leaks. If there are some bad ones, pull the boat and fix those areas, if there are no major leaks but a few little ones, throw sawdust in the water in the vicinity of the leak and swirl the water with a paddle forcing the sawdust to sink. Some of it will be sucked into the leak and clog it. This will work for quite a while with a boat that is just sitting, plus if the leak starts again just repeat the process. Next time you haul the boat to repaint the bottom, trim off the tar that has squeezed out of the swollen seams, fix the minor leaks and you're all set.
You are right, you will get much conflicting advice and everyone is an expert but trust the ones who make their living working on boats, their reputations depend on it. Also there are many solutions to the same problem depending mainly on your pocket book. Generally with a wood boat it is better to stick with traditional methods.------------gary

I appreciate that you take your time to help small guys like me.....a guy who loves sailing but can never afford a "big" boat.
I have an American Y-Flyer...a wooden boat, 18'.
I got it 2 years ago in really bad shape. I put it together just to see if it would float...not wanting to invest too much in case it would not. Well, I had a wonderfful season on her and now I am ready to really work on her.
My big problem is the edges where the plywood comes together. Years ago it was obviouls fiberglassed on the edges. It was coming off, so when I got her ready to float, I used "bondo" (a car repair filler). It worked and remained watertight. My problem is that as the wood gives and moves in regular use.....the bondo does not give and it cracks, splits and breaks.
I am looking for a marine expoxy for wooden boats that does not cost too much, but which will seal these edges and I can then pain over them.
I appreicate your help.

Thanks.Tim ,Bristol, TN

Tim:
Nice boat, I saw her on your website. If you were dealing with solid wood rather than plywood, there would be several possible solutions, but with plywood there is little swelling so you can't caulk it in the traditional way, that is why plywood seams are usually fiberglassed. As much as I dislike the stuff, it does the job. The only other option is to use some polysulfide flexible caulking like 3M-5200. Next wood boat you get and rebuild should be plank on frame so you really can have some fun.-----------gary

Hey, I live in the Florida Keys and have a thirty year old Willie Roberts flats boat. The original bottom delaminated and tore away in the water leaving me with bare wood (more or less). I assume it was polyester, thin cloth and paint. Lots of paint. Every so called expert tells me to: grind, epoxy, cloth and paint as the only viable option to preserving this classic. The only problem is the money. The average estimate for this 18' ft boat is $3500! There is no rot to speak off because of the good marine plywood they used back in the day so there must be a economical alternative. If I use epoxy, do I even have to glass it? (the rest of the boat is glass free) Should I use polyester instead because it's wood? Should I cloth it or chop it? Epoxy isn't cheap and I figure 5 gallons tops for an 18 foot skiff. Why do all these bozos tell me I need $2000 in materials to do the job? Christ, I just want the bottom done and back in the water! Any suggestions would be appreciated, even if I have to do it all myself. Mike

Mike:
There's a lot of wannabe experts out there. The reality is, and the good news is, there is no reason to cover good plywood with fiberglass cloth. It is usually done just to put a smooth surface on the wood and provide a little chaffing protection and as you experienced can be ripped off. I would use fiberglass 6 in tape with polyester resin along any underwater seams just to make them watertight and just paint the rest. Make sure the glass is over bare wood. There is also no real benefit in coating the ply with epoxy resin, the paint will seal it just fine. If you feel better about glassing the bottom, just use glass cloth and polyester resin, use tape on the seams as well. To avoid air bubbles under the glass, fair everything off with bondo, a 2 part epoxy paste used in car repair. For your edification, chopped glass or matt is only used as a filler. Hope this helps and saves you money. If you have further questions feel free to ask. Good luck----------gary

Hello My name is Ty and I own a 20' fiberglass sailboat that is over 25 years old and the marine grade plywood in the cabin that is fiberglassed to the bottom of the hull and is standing upright to support the two births on either side of the boat and a bulk head in front the boat that lay under water from time to time because of rain water that leaks in sometimes has rotted out . I am interested in replacing it with King Starboard lumber that wont rot but I dont know how bond it to the hull. There is an adhiesive for Starboard but do you think it will be strong as the fiberglass that bonded the orginal plywood . Thank you

TY;
I don't know what king starboard lumber is, but the only way to fix your problem is to attach whatever lumber you use to the hull with fiberglass. Plywood is usually the lumber of choice and on older fiberglass boats polyester resin is used. These pieces of lumber help to support the hull so it is important that there is a strong bond to the hull. It might be helpful if you got some "how to" advice from a local boatyard or boat repair shop. Good luck----------gary

Gary-

I have sent this email to a couple of others, but I figure the more irons
you have in the fire, the better, so here it goes.
Hope you can help. I have been given a 63 Dixie 18 ft runabout style boat.
The boat seems to be in sound condition but the previous owner at one point
mounted something to the floor (towards the stern about 2 feet forward of
the transom) and then later removed it without sealing the holes. Now,
after sitting uncovered for about the last five years, the outline of what I
will call the cross members of the flooring system (I assume they are wood)
seem to have possibly rotted where the holes were drilled and has left me
with weak fiberglass flooring. I am certain about this part because I
stepped through a section of the fiberglass last night.

This is a fixer upper and will never return the money I could potentially
put into it, so budget is a priority. That, and I am married to a red head
so fear is a factor as well. I feel certain that I will have to cut out and
replace the infected area, but if what I am assuming about the "cross beam
or cross member" being rotted, should I replace the entire beam and
fiberglass section around it? How far do I go in replacing the floor and
how is the cross member attached to the sides if it is made of wood and the
sides are made of fiberglass? I have worked with wood and construction
projects a lot, but fiberglass (laying on the sheets) only once and that was
15 years ago. It seems to be simple enough if I get rid of the air pockets,
build up the surface with layering until it is level with the rest of the
floor and then sand. Have I missed anything.

The other thought I had was to put down about 1/2 inch marine plywood to the
entire floor and fasten it with screws. Do it in sections for easy removal,
caulk around it as best I can to seal out water and then cover the entire
are in indoor outdoor carpet. The wood would support the passengers, and
the screws would reinforce the structure of the boat and the floor. Good
idea or bad idea?

The last item I will pester you with is the transom. It appears to be in
great shape but with the age of the boat and the floor condition, it makes
you wonder. (Also, my first boat was an 18 ft Dixie that the previous owner
way over powered with a 140 HP and it had the transom replaced once and was
getting ready for the second replacement when someone ran into the boat
while it was tied to the dock and totaled it.) So I have some previous
experience with Dixie and their transoms. Therefore, is there a way to make
a "pre-emptive strike" and reinforce the transom ahead of time? Possibly
with wood, metal and / or fiberglass from the inside? It has an 85HP
Kiekhoefer - Mercury and I would hate to lose it. Mostly because it runs
and because it was free. I'm sure the process would be labor intensive and
messy, but is replacing the transom that hard to do and is there a way to
check the condition to the transom for it's structural strength, the wood
inside for rot, etc. to see if this is something I need to even be worrying
about? I am familiar with the "experts" that can come out and use a
"humidity sniffer" to check the humidity level and / or water content of the
transom and then charge you a couple of grand for their 15 minutes, but
that's not quite what I have in mind.

Any ideas or thoughts you might have for an inexpensive repair on either or
both of these topics is certainly appreciated. I don't mind doing a little
work to make sure the job is done right. I just hate to spend a fortune on
a boat that will never be worth more than a grand or so. I have drills,
power saws, buffers, (no power sander, hmmm...mental note on reason to go to
Lowes) but I do have a disc sander that I can attach to my cordless drill.
I am fairly handy with tools but don't have anything big that would be used
for the "marine" business like fly wheel puller, air compressor or chain
fall. My only hope is that you don't read this and have the same answer
that I have in the back of my head. SOSOFCIC. (See below for definition.)
Thanks a bunch for your help and especially for making yourself available
for this type of questioning.
My most sincere gratitude,

Jay Tronco
Charlotte, NC

SIOSIOFCIC- pronounced see-o-see-of-sic; defined in Jay's unabridged
dictionary of nautical terms as an acronym for the abbreviation of the
common nautical phrase of "Sink It Or Set It On Fire, (and) Call (the)
Insurance Company. Usually use in coordination with or following first most
common nautical term, AMTANBABOS.

AMTANBABOS, pronounced Am-Tan-Bah-Bos; acronym and abbreviation for most
popular of nautical phrases "Aw Man, This Ain't Nothin' But A Bunch Of
Shit!"

I'll take credit for the first one but the second saying I learned from a
friend I met at USC that was from Florence, SC. I just made up the acronym.

Thanks again for all your help and have a great weekend.

Jay:
Get rid of the boat and keep the Red head.
You can check the soundness of the transom by tapping on it everywhere with a hammer and listening to the sound it makes. If the sound is sharp and resonate, it's good, if you get a dull thud there is probably rot and you will have to replace the wood, messy but doable. On glass boat floors the supporting wood timbers are usually incased in fiberglass but if fresh water gets to the wood and there is no air circulation, they will rot quickly. Often the wood is not just a floor support but supports the bottom of the boat as well, so it an important structural member. To fix the problem you have to tear up what is there, locate the bad wood, replace it with kiln dried wood glassed to the hull, which is done by using a combination of Matt glass and woven glass with polyester resin. No fine carpentry here, just down and dirty, stinky and messy. Lots of labor, not much $. I will be glad to walk you through the various procedures once you know the extent of what needs to be done. The other option is to give it to the red head to be used as a planter and you get a real wood boat which is easy to fix-------hope this helps--------g

Just how do I go about avoiding all the headaches and mess, blood sweat and tears? I mean if I give the red head the boat, not the wood question. If you thing the transom and flooring is a lot of messy work, just wait ?til you give a redhead a ?free? planter. Talk about headaches and labor intensive?no, over here, no wait, over there. Now fill it up with this 8 tons of dirt, now plant all these bushes in it?you know, I think I like it better where we first had it.-----Jay

question: I have 17ft ceder-strip runabout. When my father bought it, 30 some years ago, he had it fiber-glassed at the water line,a bis mistake. Over the years, water has gotten between the wood and the glass and the glass sheet has developed cracks. Do I, a)repair fiber glass on crack lines b)remove all the fiber-glass and redo entire bottom c) remove glass and maybe use epoxy. I am inclined to remove the glass and leave it off, the the boat will swell naturally. Any suggestions would be welcomed.
Cheers
Tim Labrie

Tim;
Usually when they built strip planked boats the strips were glued and edged nailed and not made to swell for that would break the glue joint, so they were glassed over to make them watertight. Yours was no doubt glassed over with polyester resin which becomes quite brittle over time and cracks plus after 30 yrs the glue is also brittle. I would strip off the old glass, roughly sand the bottom and apply new glass this time using epoxy resin which has a bit more flexibility than polyester. Also I would recommend glassing it all the way up the topsides so the hull is completely sealed, avoiding getting any water between the glass and wood. Make sure to get a good, air bubble free, glass to wood adhesion so no moisture gets between the two and sets up a perfect rot situation. Good luck and feel free to ask more if needed-----------gary

Am looking at sailboat with FRP covered wood hull, pros and cons of FRP
covered vs all FRP hull?

Hi;
Probably the biggest advantage 0f glass over wood is ease of repair and renovation. You basically have a wood boat, hopefully a plywood or cold molded one, whose strength is based on the wood not the fiberglass. Wood boats have good stress strength in all directions as well good puncture resistance whereas a FRP hull, like an egg, has great compression strength but little puncture or cracking resistance. Glass over wood can only work well with plywood, cold molded or strip plank construction. Glassing over carvel or lapstarke planking is a big no, no, unless you put so many layers of glass that you are merely using the wood as a mold.-hope this helps--gary

I have 1882 26' penn yan with twin inboards,and has two motor hatchs,
water has gotten in between the sandwich of the deck hatches and rotted at at the
perimiter i have cut away at the edges and further back in the hatch ,and find that the inner body is made of wood peices cut as end grain standing on end ,epoxyed in place could you tell me the reason for that, rather than a sheet of 3/4" plywood
thank you
Rhody Walls

Often in those days they used balsa wood on end as a filler sandwiched between fiberglass layers. Putting the end grain adjacent to the glass surface was thought to increase the resin saturation into the wood. Strength and lightweight were the goal but if any moisture got in it was rot city. . If you need to rebuild, use plywood lightly glassed over------------g

question: I have an old 1955 Navy Liberty 40'boat carvel planked, that was converted into a pleasure boat. A few years ago I took the boat to Florida for a few months and got wormed by Teredo worms. I have since taken the boat to New England where it has been in the water during the summers and out of the water over the winters. I am considering putting some type of coating on the hull, but not sure about fiberglassing, epoxy or polyvinyl (hydrex 100)over the existing hull. Any suggestions or comments.

Covering a carvel planked boat that is not ready for the wooden boat graveyard with fiberglass is not a good idea. You are covering a flexible structure with an inflexible material. As a last resort, fiberglassing works if many layers are used so that you actually create a glass hull around the wood. Since the boat is no longer in a tropical climate, Toredo worms are not a great problem , although it is well advised to keep on good bottom paint and let no exposed wood on the waterline stay unpainted for much time. The wood needs to "breathe" and any of the plastic coatings inhibit this and can facilitate rot if fresh water is trapped. I assume any damage done by the worms has been corrected, if not you should tap the suspect planks with a small hammer and listen for hollow or thud sounds which would indicate worm damage. Nice solid sound means no problem. Toredoes burrow into the plank and eat along the grain lines making hollow channels that never come to the surface, so sounding is the only way to expose problems. Destroying the worm is done by putting a torch on the entry hole which heats up the channel and kills the beast, you can hear them pop like popcorn. I believe freezing kills them as well .----gary

question: I HAVE A '87 WELLCRAFT ARUBA. THE STRINGER WHERE THE ENGINE MOUNT IS ROTTEN. HAVING THE STINGER ENCASED WITH FIBERGLAS AND RESIN, COULD I JUST CLEAN OUT THE ROTTEN WOOD FROM THE TOP OF THE STRINGER AND POUR SOME KIND MATERIAL IN THAT WOULD HARDEN AND BE STONG ENOUGH TO REPLACE THE WOOD. IF YES, NAME OF MATERIAL I COULD USE. SOMEONE SUGGESTED "STOP LEAK". (A CONCRETE MIX) THANKS MARTY

Sorry, no quick fix here. If it was just a cosmetic repair there are many ways to fake it, but this stringer is structural and must be replaced. Use a kiln dried piece of wood, fir is fine, and makes sure it is well glassed in where no moisture can get to it. The rot in the old stringer was caused by fresh water getting into the wood and glassed over wood doesn't breath and rot ensues. Have fun---gary

question: I have a wooden hull with fiberglass over it. In one section the fiberglass is bubbling. Does this mean that water is getting through and the fiberglass needs to be re-done? Yes the hull and floor are damp in that area.

Yes, when the glass bubbles away from the wood the resin has lost its bond. This is usually do to water working its way between the glass and wood and often, if not corrected quickly, the wood will rot as well making the repair more of a monster. Hopefully you can just grind off the bubble area and reglass, but if there is rot, you must replace with good wood so you can get a decent bond between it and the resin. Have fun-------------g

Need to repair a 150mm x 300mm section of dry rot (removed) in a 4mm gaboon ply catamaran hull. It's been suggested to do this by epoxy bonding a ply 'frame' to the inside of the hull that the new insert would be bonded to.

Then I have also read of the scarf join technique. Which is the better & stronger method, the less weight the better, but not at the expense of safety.

I'm new to this so all details would be helpfull; should i use screws to clamp and are they then removed and filled.
Cheers,and THank You.
Rob

If this repair is in a low stress area either way you mentioned is ok but if it is in a high stress area like around the chain plates it would be best to use a plywood backing plate extending several inches beyond the edges, screwed or bolted to the hull and the inset piece screwed or bolted to it and glassed over. Hope this helps but feel free to ask more if I am not clear------gary

Gary,
Thanks for your advice, its about 800mm one way to chain plate and
1 metre the other to front bridle, however there's a bulkhead within 150mm
of intended patch either side (before both chain plate to the back and
bridle at the front). It's turned out a fair sized piece of soft wood,
about 300 mm square will be size of patch. Do you prefer the backing plate
in this case or either or?

I was intending a marine epoxy glue to bond all surfaces, are you
suggesting permanent screws as well, or temporary to clamp surfaces to
ensure bond? Should I then glass over the join on exterior surface? If so, is a
piece of mat covering the entire area better than a 50-70mm tape over the
join(s)
Appreciate your help

I tend to overdo my repairs so I would prefer using the backing plate. If you epoxy glue the pieces and can clamp them , then mechanical fastening wouldn't be necessary and the fiberglass tape is certainly adequate for water-tightness and fairing, Also, make sure to repair the problem that caused the rot in the first place and a piece of useful knowledge, car antifreeze kills dry rot.-----------have fun-----gary

question: Hello Gary,
I have a 1930 46 ft Dawn intercoastal cabin cruiser. Inside she is basically a rather large peice of furniture. A walk thru her is like a trip to the museum. She is carvel cedar planked with oak frames and floors.
I intend to retire for a couple to 20 years or so on this vessel. I have also decided to glass her whole hull. She has been inside on the
hard for over three years and is DRY. I am inserting cedar stips in her hull plank seam gaps of over 3/8 inch and using West system apoxy to adhear. The rest of the smaller seam gaps will get caviseal troweled into and the but boards also. This will be done afer all the old cotton batten is removed and seams scraped to the exposed wood inbetween.The intire hull will be sanded to expose the cedar planks.
My question is concerning the # of layers of glass and resin need to make the hull rigid and strong enough to handel 8ft seas. She is primarily a intercoastal cruiser with fair weather trips outside to fish.
What weave of glass should the first layer be and what direction does it need to run.
First a run of heavy glass from bow to stern ( including the keel ) and then two layers overlaping from side to side. Since the boat is inside this will all be done in a 24 hour period.
I want to make the hull RIDGED, but not add too much extra weight. Right now this estimate wil cost me about $10000. Bucks.
What would you reccomend in the type or weight of glass to use and the direction of each layer and the number of layers need to atain RIDGEDITY.
I am removing the transome, installing 1/4 plywood and sealing it with epoxy resin. Then the mahogany transome is being refitted into it;s original position. The plywood is a attempt to creat a seal in the hull. The transome will be glassed to the water line. I hate to glass the transome but will if it will create a weak spot.
Thanking you in advance I am grateful for any experience you can share that will improve this reconstrution of a old piece of history.
Should you or any experienced wood lovers be in the New Bern,N.C. area in the month of april,2004 and like to visit and see the work please fell free to drop in. Pleae call first. When finished the vessel under power by twin 25 HP 1942 BUDA diesels will travel home to the Red Neck Riveria of South Texas. The ship is at the Neuse Bay Harbour Marina in Bridgton.

Hi;
Sounds like a beautiful woody, but I am the wrong guy to ask about fiberglassing such a boat. It is evident you have made up your mind to do this so I won't burden you with my diatribe on why it is a bad idea and how the cost will more likely be greater than fixing her the traditional way. I suggest you go to google.com and type in fiberglassing wood hull and you will get a plethora of information. Good luck with your project and remember to clean the resin off your skin with vinegar, not acetone and after working with or sanding the glass, take a cold shower not a hot one , this hinders the small fibers from getting into your pores and itching forever. I'll take wood shavings and sawdust anytime. Good luck with your project and your retirement---gary

Thanks Gary,
Knew you would say stay traditional. That's what I had planned originally. However years ago I had a plank pop on me after a professional bottom redo. Almost lost the ship and almost went down with her. This old girl (after three inspections by boatrights) will most likely leak for the rest of her life. She has most likely been leaking her whole life. All of my woodies have always been dry. Even the one that popped open. It hurts to glass this old lady but since I have been advised this is the best course I am going this way. I do have the feeling I have sinned and I will have to answer to Neptune someday. I just want to do this as right as I can since I'm going this route. Thanks for the response and for not giving me advice on something your not sure about. I have enjoyed reading your question and answer dialogues as they are very informative. Keep up the good work. My best, Bob

question: yes sir i am interested in a skiff a guy build here in florida he has been building them for 10 yrs and they seem o be holding up great, my question is the boat is 1/2 in marine tech marine ply, the bottom outside is glassed and epoxied, the outside sides are epoxied then painted , but on the inside of the hull he leaves them to just a prime and topside paint the swears by this and says that this lets the wood breath and they get wet and dry out he says he could encapsulate with epoxy or glass and epoxy but if i did get a screw hole or something that wasnt sealed water would get in cant get out and start the rot process, what is your oppinion, the boat will only be used weekends and out of the water the rest
thanksd again jerry

Jerry;
The man knows his business, he's right. I have had countless questions from outboard boat owners who have wood transoms that are encapsulated in fiberglass and have rotted out. Once fresh water brings the rot fungus into that perfect environment where no fresh air can get to the wood, it's all over. These skiffs sound like good boats done by a knowledgeable craftsman----have fun with yours----gary

question: After you build your wood and fiberglass stringers, how do you attach the floor? ie. Do you fiberglass plywood panels and nail, screw or glue them to the support struture, or do you screw wood to the support structure and just fiber glass the top....

How you do it depends on what you want to accomplish. If you just want a floor to have a level surface you can pretty much build it anyway you want , but if you want the floor to create a watertight compartment for flotation you have to properly fiberglass the plywood to the sides of the hull. No matter what you do the plywood should be thoroughly sealed on both sides with penetrating epoxy, you can glass the top if you want or not. Just remember whenever you encapsulate wood in fiberglass you must do a thorough job and not leave any possibility for fresh water to get to the wood and establish a perfect environment for rot. Hope this helps, ask more as needed---------gary

question: Gary,
I am building a new 18ft plywood lake skiff and have received several suggestions on how to finish the boat. One is to just paint it with several coats of paint while others suggest using an expoxy coating (2 to 3 coats) and then prime and paint. The expoxy proponents also recommend coating the inside of the open skiff with the expoxy. Any suggestion on how to finish this project.
Thanks,
Don

Don;
Usually, what I have done with plywood boats is to use fiberglass tape on the seams and then coat the restof the outside of the hull with penetrating epoxy. The fiberglass tape adds a bit of strength and guarantees no leaks and adding the penetrating epoxy just seals the surface from moisture and makes it easy to paint. Most importantly,with plywood one must be careful to make sure all edges are well sealed so no moisture can enter the layers, this is where rot usually begins. My preference is not to epoxy the inside mainly because there are so many nooks and crannies fresh water can sit and eventually work under the coating and one must remember that , unlike paint, epoxy and polyester coatings do not breath and therefore can trap fresh water and create an ideal environment for rot. The outside of the hull presents less of a problem this way. Have fun, and congrats on building your own---------gary

I've used polyester resin to adhere fibreglass tape on the seams of a dingy I'm building. I "thought" it was epoxy resin. Problem is, I used it over areas where I had applied epoxy putty. It won't cure. It's been three days and I've had heat in my shop during the day (about 50-55 degrees), and today I tried a heat gun - no luck.

TOM;; Eventually it will go off but if you mix a hot batch and put it over the uncured the heat generated will take care of it--g

I have a 33 ft launch with a sound strip plank kauri hull,my keel doesn"t look so sound it has laminated 4x2 pine timbers.I've reglued as best i can. I would like to fibreglass the keel for added strength as the weight of the rudder on the steel bottom keelplate could delaminate it.my other option is to tie all the keel timbers & steel flat bar together with stainless bracketing,any expertise on this would be appreciated,

You would have to use multiple layers of biaxial glass to get any real strength, and the natural expansion and contraction of the wood would eventually cause the glass to separate from the wood. If your main worry is delamination of the keel, I would try to through bolt into the keelson or the floor timbers. Also I would use some good 3/4 in plywood fastened to the sides of the keel with multiple screws or nails, maybe even 2 layers of ply with staggered joints. This would give you tremendous sheer strength and eliminate delamination problems.You could then glass over that but I see no real advantage to that.----- Good luck------gary

question: Gary, I have a 1979 Gibson 36 FT Fiberglass houseboat. I have water between the gelcot and inside fiberglass. Lucky I have no bisters on the outside of the bottom. I have ground out the inside of keel area and in the keel cavity I have a 2X4 wood keel in the cavity but around the wood on both sides there was open space of about 1/2 to 1 inch on each side of the wood. That space was full of water from ossmosis. I now have the keel opened up and drying. I will be starting my fiberglass but before I do I need to fill the space on both sides of the wooden keel. Someone told me to fill that area with bondo. Is that correct? or is there a better product. Need guidance. Steve

Bondo is too brittle to fill anything more than surface scratches or dents. I would use either a mixture of epoxy resin and sawdust or epoxy and glass fiiber culled from fiberglass matt. You could also substitute ployester resin for the epoxy since that is what you will most likely be using for your glass work. Have fun----------g

It seems to be imposable to locate any info on extending hulls astern boats. The info that I have found is limited to brief descriptions to procedures used by marine repair yards like Padden Creek Marine. They show photos of boat extension procedures on there site, (http://www.paddencreekmarine.com/pcm_wip.html).

Also I have come across a few writings on this subject but noting specific in details.

Some methods are to prefabricate the extension then join the extension to the hull, and others mold a carefully designed form then lay up fiberglass.

I have a 24 foot Fiberform soon to be completely gutted down to the stringers. It sat on dry dock for 12 years unprotected except for the inboard motor. I would like to extend the cockpit. From what I understand this should not exceed 10% of the hull length. I also understand the process of creating a mold to fabricate the extension, extending stringers to full length of new addition, and the lay up needed.

What I am most concern about is the joining of the extension to the hull. I’ve read info on joing small fiberglass projects but something this large would be daunting. Some ideas I have would be:

1. leave 5” or so of the old transom as a knee and fabricate a similar knee on the extension. Then bolt and fiberglass joints together, then fill and fair the exterior. Not my favorite.

2. Take down the hull to the core, back 20” at the joining location at the hulls transom, secure extension mold form to hull, lay up the interior, remove mold and lay up exterior, fill, fair and paint. Or something like that.

Finally, unrelated to the above subject, should I when removing the transom and stringers after gutting all interior sections temporally fiberglass a few wood struts along the hulls beam to avoid stress to hull or support hull with braces on the exterior?

Daunting project, why not look for a boat that meets your needs rather than attempting such an extensive rebuild ? That said, I think your #2 is the best option with stringers and sheer clamp extending into the original hull 3 times the distance of the new extension. This is the same ratio used for cantilevering a balcony on a house. I would also use the biazial cloth, roving and matte sewn together, to make the splice. It is difficult to imagine the stresses involved plus how the additional length will effect your center of effort and thus the overall balance of the boat underway, but, what the hell, give it a shot.------gary

Thanks for the quick reply. I truly would be bless if I could get my 20 year old to write to me that fast-if at all. Supposedly this 1975 Fiberform engine was rebuilt a year before my foreman docked it for 12 years with the intent of rebuilding it. It has a Ford 351 and a Mercruiser outdrive. He tried for the last 2 years to sale it to me and three weeks ago decided to give it to me. I got it free and that never happens to me. I rebuilt two boats in my life so I'm aware of the work involved.

The reason for my previous questions is that I am trying to accumulate all the possibilities for what I would like to do to this boat. And what is that you ask?

I fell in love with an Italian style boat, the Sciallino 25(see attachment). I will never see one here in Hawaii yet, be able to afford one. So I was thinking, with the naivety of a 18 year old that after drawing and developing design plans, that I could morph some of Sciallino into my Fiberform. Really like the rounded transom and swim step and those sweeping lines, cabin height and on and on. It's all a thought right now and I my end up just building a tanker surfboard, dive for octopus and call it a day. But maybe not.

Again Gary thank you for the reply and if it happens I'll let you know - in a year or two.

20 year olds don't have time for that, only us 60+ year olds find meaning in such endeavors. Thanks for the photo. I see why you would want your boat to look like that and I say go for it. In the 80's I worked repairing wood boats in a San Francisco boat yard and at that time many Vietnamese were coming there. Many were fisherman without the resources to get proper fish boats, but with unbelievable ingenuity they would turn the most unlikely bay day boat into an ocean going fish boat. I witnessed a group take a 16ft boston whaler open skiff and build a 30ft inboard fish boat on top of it using scavenged lumber from the dump and for years after that I would watch that vessel, with amazement, heading out under the Golden Gate bridge into the Pacific on a fishing trip. So, the extreme, the outrageous can be accomplished and what better legacy can we have than to have participated in such marvelous shenanigans. Keep me up to date on your progress----g

I plan to extend a 33 foot grp catamaran's hulls by 3 feet adding transom steps. I'm considering using Duflex panels for the job. My question is how to get the cut panels to conform to the original hull shape. Should I make a mould using thin ply? I have searched the net for advice with no luck whatsoever and then found your site. Hoping to hear some suggestions on how to proceed.

I am not well versed with grp repairs but I did once fix a large hole in the side of a grp hull by shaping a large piece of floatation foam to the contour of the hull, wedging it on the inside of the hull and fiberglassing over its surface after applying a releasing agent to the foam so the glass wouldn't stick to it. Then of course, once the hull is glassed up, removing the foam from the inside of the boat Worked well and I see no reason such a system wouldn't work for what you are doing------------g

I HAVE A 1984 22 FOOT FIBERGLASS BOAT HOW DO I CHECK TO SEE IF THE FOAM HAS BEEN SOAKED WITH WATER. AND IF IT HAS BEEN HOW DO I GO ABOUT REPLACING IT. HOPE YOU CAN HELP THANK YOU

Easiest way is to tap the deck with a screwdriver handle or
wood mallet. The good parts of the deck will have a certain sound and the
bad parts will sound much different, dull thud like. The fix depends on
whether the wood in the core is rotted or just water soaked. You'd have to
drill a hole and poke around with an ice pick to determine this. If rotted,
it must be replaced and I am sure you can imagine that job. If just water
soaked, you drill lots of small holes to let the core dry , a heat gun or
hair drier helps. Once dry you saturate the core with epoxy resin using a
resin hypodermic type applicator. Check out this site for more info---good
luck
http://www.rotdoctor.com/L/BoatL/Bqa.html

The deck of my 35' wooden boat is glassed-over ply on red cedar planking. The glass & ply was done some years ago. The deck appears completely sound though now in need of painting. My problem is I don't know exactly what the glass-cloth was laid in, and/or what paint was originally used. When you kneel on it, or rub a finger on the deck, you get a whitish powdering off the surface, and over time the weave of the cloth has become more evident. I guess the surface needs stabilising before being painted but I'm unsure what product to use. I've no reason to think the original job was anything but conventional ----Robbie

I am sure the fiberglass was saturated with polyester resin and over
years of being trodden on and exposeure to UV rays has had a wearing effect.
Ideally one would get all the paint off and add a couple more coats of resin
to stabilize the surface but the paint removal could be difficult and the
glass seems to be still adhering so a more realistic option is to use a 2
part polyester paint over the existing paint. You should do a small
experimental application to make sure the poly will adhere to what is on
there. The simplest option is to just use a good quality alkyd based enamel
over what's there and see how it wears.There are no huge wrongs here, all
choices will work to some degree and you're really in no trouble as long as
the glass is adhering well to the ply.You might should check with
www.rotdoctor.com who is an expert on resins. Hope this helps---gary

question: I am rebuilding the companionway hatch on my Alberg 30 and would like more light down below. What thickness of Lexon should I use. Thank you Larry

Hi Gary. Could you point me to a plan of one of the old fashioned skylights, with the bi-fold opening tops.I have an old motor launch .circa 1910 , and she is getting a bit of a spruce up at the moment. She can get a bit stuffy below, especially on a long haul , and needs more air.( I'm ok up top , but the wife has to keep the coffee and sandwiches coming!). She has a conventional hinged hatch on the fore deck , but one of the old butterfly ones , in mahogany on the cabin top, would do her wonders. I know they leak , but we dont go out in the rough stuff anyway.
It is really a question of the best way to form the gutters and seals.
Your input would be appreciated.
Cheers.
Doug Browning. New Zealand

Doug;
I can't send you directly to a set of plans for that type butterfly hatch but would suggest you make your inquiry on the forum at www.boatbuilding.com. Having said that I have worked on and repaired enough of those hatches to tell you that the ones that didn't leak had a raised 1/4 spline about 1/2inch in from the edge all the way around each windows base with the appropriate sized matching groove on the upper window frame. Often, on older boats, this spline would have to be replaced and in some instances is done so with stiff rubber. Also in constructing the corner joints for the hatch itself, make sure to use a joint that has plenty of glued surface area and can be splined and or doweled as well i.e. make it strong as hell. Good luck with a fun project. Send me a Picture when completed.---------------g
ps. You might find a drawing either in Chapells "Boatbuilding" or Hershoffs "Sensible Cruising Designs" both great books.

I purchased a Coronado 23. It is in great shape except for the wooden hatches. How to I put the bow in the new companionway hatch? What wood should I use? Can I buy 3/4 inch bendable marine plywood? Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Thanks, Phil

Phil:
You should use Honduras mahogany or Teak for the frame of the hatch and use 2 layers, glued together in place, of 3/8 marine ply. The 3/8 will take the bend a full 3/4 will not. If you want to get fancy you can use 1 piece of 3/8 ply and attach 2 X 3/8 inch strips of mahogany or teak for to aft on top of the ply. You can use black caulk in the seams that are created as a result of the camber. If you are on a tight budget a good clear fir is fine for the hatch frame. If you want more light down below you can cover the hatch with a piece of lexon rather than wood. Make sure with your finished product that there are no seams or open joints where fresh water can enter and cause rot. I hope this helps and feel free to ask more-------------------have fun----gary

question: hello mr. wheeler my wife and i are totally new to sailing. we recently bought a 26'northstar 600 this may seem silly , but can a main halyard be changed without ascending the mast on a system like MastMate ? thanks for your time i remain oyur ob't servant anthony canu
email: CANUAP @euroseek .com
B1: Send to Gary Wheeler

Mr. Wheeler,
I am searching for information about how to refurbish riverboats, and thought you might have information to pass on to me. There is a riverboat in the state of Iowa that is in the need for a total refurbishment. However, there is no known craftsman to perform the work. Here is some background on the Lone Star riverboat:

The Lone Star riverboat, built in 1869, is now dry-docked on the LeClaire, Iowa levee as part of the Buffalo Bill Museum. Originally designed as a side-wheeler "water taxi", in 1876 it was converted into a towboat pushing logs down the Mississippi River. Then in 1899, it was remodeled at the Kalke Boat Yard in Rock Island, Illinois, where it was converted from wood to coal power. Later, around 1922, the "Texas" upper deck was added. Its last days were spent as a sand dredge workboat until finally, in 1968, it was taken off the river after nearly 100 years of service. It is the last and the oldest surviving example of the wooden-hulled workboats.
If you would be able to refurbish this river boat or have information on an organization or a craftsman that may be able to refurbish this riverboat or, at least, be able to guide its refurbishment, would you please contact me? My contact points are listed below.
Sincerely,
Bill WILLIAM ARTHUR ATKINS

Bill:
Sounds like an interesting project. With restoration work, since you are mostly replacing bad wood with good, you don't have to have the know how to build one from scratch, just the knowledge of materials and how to traditionally put them together. I suggest you take your inquiry to www.boatbuilding.com and also www.woodenboat.com. Both these sites have good bulletin boards read by skilled wooden boat craftspeople from all around the country. Good luck with your worthy project------gary

Hello Mr. Wheeler,

I hope you are doing well. My name is Rebecca Eastman. I am 21 years old
and would love to acquire greater knowledge in classic boat restoration. I
was hoping you could point me in the right direction in regards to restoring
a 1930's, 16' sailboat. I have to admit I don't have much knowledge on boat
restoration, but I do have a love for classic wooden boats.
This particular boat was built by a man named Dutch Tillman around 1936 and
purchased by my family about four years ago out of the attic of a barn near
Keuka Lake, NY. For the past 4 years we have kept it covered in a barn.
Basically I would like to know how to check for the extent of dry rot? The
boat is mahogany, with what tools should I start to remove the finish? Do I
need to make a cradle for the boat? Do you think it is likely I will have
to replace the wood? I am sorry to bombard you with so many questions, but
I have a lot. I want to restore this boat properly and will not touch it
until I feel I have enough knowledge. I would greatly appreciate any advice
on reliable reading materials and resources that would answer my questions.
Thank you and take care,
Rebecca

Rebecca:
I admire your enthusiasm and it sounds like a worthwhile project. The best way to learn is by doing but for a little direction you can find some books and articles at www.woodenboat.com and at www.boatbuilding.com. You can build a cradle but the most important thing is to have all the weight rest evenly on the keel. You can remove the finish by using paint remover and or a good high speed finishing sander. The best way to find rot is by hearing it and then poking it. Get an ice pick with a wood handle. Use the handle part to tap on the various parts of the boat. The sound you want to hear is a sharp hard one, if you get a soft dull sound poke it with the pointed end and see if it is soft. Small areas of rot can be fixed with epoxy but large area especially if they are structural need to be replaced with new wood. I have no idea what you will find but if you discover too much deterioration it may not be worth trying to fix. If your into working on woodenboats and want to learn about it, consider an apprenticeship at the Atlantic challenge organization here in Rockland. Check it out at www.atlanticchallenge.com. Also check the question and answer part of my website. You are about to embark on an adventure. Good luck and feel free to ask as many questions as you wish, no matter how silly they seem------------gary

Hello Gary Wheeler:

I have Lightning 7868 (1960) cedar planked. My problem is the leakage
factor. I clean and caulk w/seam compound inside/out and then bottom
coat w/ antifouling epoxy every spring. The rate of leakage seems to
have increased.
Besides simply doing what I've been doing more/better, etc. I wonder if
in the long run there's another approach? I wonder what additional
coating you'd recommend if any over a 40 YO wooden hull. Fiberglass/gel
??
Does this make sense? What are pitfalls?
Bill Powell

Bill.
Years ago I had an old lightning and had some great sails with it. In fact it was the boat I first tried the mast mate prototype on. Because of the stresses on the planked hull, they do need to be recaulked occasionally. First putting seam compound on the inside is a waist of your time, stopping a leak from the inside of a boat rarely works, as is putting it on the outside without recaulking the seam with cotton. The cotton acts like a gasket, the wood swells around the cotton sealing the seam. Laying the loose cotton into the seam takes skill and experience, but often cotton string or rope of the right diameter can be used. The trick is to place the string or rope in the center of the plank seam such that the plank can swell around it. You then add [pay] seam compound over that. Caulking in this fashion allows considerable
plank movement without leakage. If the boat is swollen i.e. been in the water for a while, you should make the cotton a tight fit, if the boat is dried out you would place it in less tight. You would control this by the diameter of rope or string used. A dulled pizza cutter works well to push the cotton into the seam. Using any type of epoxy or polyester putty in the seam is doomed to failure for it does not move with the plank. The only effective way to use these materials is to completely cover the bottom with a thin layer of marine grade plywood and cover it with a layer of fiberglass. Of course this is not a simple procedure, adds weight to the boat and alters the initial construction. I hope this helps and feel free to ask more questions. ----Gary

Gary:
thanks for your thoughtful response.
since my em, I have learned from another expert some other opinions, which I'd
like to add to the directions you have provided.
specifically, the other recommendation was to pull the boat and observe where the
leakage occurs by adding sufficient water to it on the trailer, on level ground,
then attack seams with a putty knife (tho I like your pizza idea) and add Davis
Slickseam, instead of the conventional seam compound I have used previously. this
person's advice was the 40 YO wood has now lost its live edge, it's beginning to
rot and the conventional seam compound won't bind to the "gray" wood. (and he says
this product will attach)

I now have the added recommendation of using the cotton batting. I haven't
researched this technique, but will look at it.
It sounds like the way to do it is from the outside, so I would need to flip it
and bare the hull wood? or just work around the bottomcoat with the pizza wheel?

As to the suggestion to epoxy MDX to the bare hull, then fiberglass over, he
advised against it, citing the concern that any moisture caught between old and
new would worsen rot conditions.

If you have suggestions regarding (1) combining pizza wheel insertion of cotton,
plugged with Slickseam, or (2) bagging the compound approach and go with straight
cotton batting, I'd be grateful to hear from you.

BTW, when I was in Rockland, three (?) years ago, I was near the waterfront, and
there was a small lofting shop with a woodie behind it....is this you or someone
else??? I can't remember store or street name.
thanks for your interest.
Bill Powell

BILL:
No, that wasn't me, I have only been here a year, spent the last 20 yrs in San Francisco bay area working on wood boats. Of the choices you have I would go with #1. I haven't used slickseam but since the surface putty isn't what keeps the water out ie. it's the planks swelling around the cotton, any compound should work. You don't have to wood out the bottom but you do have to clean the seams well. Use the bent over tip of a file to scrape the seams well, god knows what all is in them. Roll the cotton string in place and then if you are using an oil based seam compound, paint the seam and the cotton with an oil based paint or bottom paint. The paint keeps the oils from leeching into the wood. If you are using poysulfide type caulking, don't paint the seams.
For your edification when one repairs an old planked bottomed boat by covering it with plywood and then glassing, you do not epoxy the two, rather you screw the plywood to the old bottom and you put a bedding of tar or Henry's roofing cement between the two surfaces. This prevents further deterioration of the original planking.
Finding the exact location of a leak on a planked bottom is pretty tough but my lightning experience tells me it is either around the mast step, or around the centerboard trunk. Let me know how this plays out, you will get all kinds of advice but the old ways are proven ways-------gary

Bill;
One thing I forgot to mention is that before you go to the trouble of recaulking you should check to make sure the bottom planks don't need to be refastened. You should pull a couple of the old fastenings and see if they have any holding power. If not , you should rescrew the planks. If it hasn't been refastened once in its long life it well may need it. Before you refastened you must take out all the stuff in the bottom seams.----------g

Gary:
thanks for the additional comments. it was replanked sometime before my tenure
began, but will be looking to verify condition now.

RE: size of cotton batting. I imagine based on your earlier comments that
various thickness of material (cotton string) are appropriate, depending on
the gage of the gap between planks, and how much gray wood may exist. West
Marine has one 1/4" product I see, for deck planking. Are there specific
materials other than regular "string" of various thickness which I should use?

I've also been ruminating about the timing of the repair. If I follow another
advisor's suggestion, I would pull the boat on trailer, and add water to verify
where leakage is. Then flip boat, clean and install cotton batting and
slickseam. (and inspect/repair per your suggestion, below). However, if I waited
until the boat were thoroughly dry (next spring) , and the gage of the gaps were
the greatest, then the cotton batting may be easier to do, and may provide a
better plug. What do you think? I'd hate to do it while the hull were wet, and
then next year find that the overall job still leaks. If I were to do it while
the hull were still swollen this fall, I would probably want to pull it back in
the pond this fall to confirm effectiveness, but would the benefit be the same
after letting it sit through the winter???

thanks again.
Bill Powell

Bill:
Putting water inside a boat to find a leak is usually inaccurate in pinpointing a leak for often where the water goes in is not where it comes out, Better to dry the boat out good, go sailing with a good sponge and try to track down the point of entry. I still vote for the centerboard trunk. The repairs should be done in the off season after the boat has dried out. This will allow for maximum swelling around the cotton when wet. Also after the planks have shrunk you can neaten up the seam widths so one size string will work in most places. On wider seams you twist the string together to make fatter widths. If you run into some severely damaged seam edges and you end up with a very wide uneven seam, it is best to true up the edge and glue a batten to one plank edge leaving caulking room to the other. The caulking edge should be beveled such that the seam width narrows as it goes deeper.---------gary

Gary:
more great ideas. let me ask on the last detail, regarding a bad plank, and your
advice to true one edge and glue a beveled batten. You suggest that the bevel of
the filet should allow for the " seam width narrows as it goes
deeper" . This would be from the outside of the hull, no? Therefore the gage of
the gap with the straight edge and beveled batten would be still widest at the
hull, and taper narrow ("deeper") towards the inside of the boat?
Bill Powell

Bill:
Right: This way when you position the cotton you don't push it through to the inside.----------g

My boyfriend and I are currently restoring a wooden boat. It is a 1964, 57' Chris Craft Constellation. The hull is double planked Phillipine Mahogany on oak ribs. The the boat was in dry dock for approximately 3 years prior to our purchasing it. We put her back in the water in April of 99, pulled her back out in April of 2000 to coal tar epoxy the bottom. However she still seems to be taking on more water than he is comfortable with. I don't feel the problem is that serious being that she was out of the water for so long. The hull is in excellent condition. Can you tell me about how long it takes a boat of this size to fully swell after she was in dry dock for so long? And how will the application of the coal tar change this process if she was not in fact fully swelled before it's application?

Thanks for your help
Jennifer

Jennifer:
You have a fine boat well worth your effort to restore her. No matter how long a wooden boat has been out of the water, it will swell to its maximum in 7 to 10 days. If a leak persists after that it will continue. Unfortunately wood that gets extremely dried out will not necessarily swell all the way back to its original size, so you could have some leaky seams especially around the plank ends and where the planks are butted together. I would certainty not cold tar the whole bottom but rather put seam compound in any suspicious seams. It is likely that after that lengthy stay out of the water, the old seam compound is pretty dried out and may need to be replaced. Also if the outer plank seams are caulked with cotton you should reef a seam and check the condition of the cotton. It should not pull apart or break easily. Usually these double planked boats were built with matched seams, no cotton, but I have seen some caulked with cotton. I would suggest first checking the seams around the transom, for in my experience with power boats this area is the Achilles heal when it comes to leaks and or rot.
Also on wooden boats there are plugs called stop waters. These exist where the large timbers are joined together such as the stem joints to form the curve and where the stem connects to the keel. These softwood dowels going through the seam laterally i.e. at right angels to the seam and swell up to keep water from moving through the joint to the boats interior. The most exposed one and therefore the easiest to inspect will be at the base of the stem in a Z shaped joint. Hope these ideas are helpful and remember a little salt water in the bilge is a good thing, it kills the rot spores. Fell free to ask more questions---------gary

Hello,

I am new to wood boats. Got a buy I couldn't refuse. 33' 1964 Fairliner
with twin V8 Chevys. Overall condition is excellent. Problem: She
takes on water when under power. Bilge pump handles with ease.
Guesstimate 3-5 gallons of water. The engine compartment takes on the
least. Midship bilge pump gets the majority. The old owner had new
transom work done. He thinks maybe improper bottom caulking. I'm trying
to save money till next spring if possible.

Do you think she needs immediate repair work? Can there be any other
areas to look at? Is it normal for some wood boats to take on water? If
she handles the water easily with bilge pumps, can normal weekend use be
considered?

Norm:
Ideally, properly caulked and cared for, a wooden boat should not take on any water thru the hull, you will always get some through the stuffing box where your shaft[s] enter the hull. Of course, especially with older wooden boats, the ideal is rarely the case and a little water in the bilge is the norm rather than the exception. 3--5 gallons, although a little disconcerting, is no big deal. If the boat does not leak other than when it is underway, the culprit, other than the stuffing box, is probably a faulty seam that only contacts the water when underway. I would enjoy the boat for now and just keep an eye that the water intake does not increase. Next time you haul the boat, right after it comes out of the water wait overnight and come back with a piece of chalk and mark all the seam areas that are still wet. These most likely should be recaulked. If you are using the boat in fresh water and you have standing water in the bilge, put a salt block in the bilge. This will prevent any rot spores from finding a home. Hope this helps, sleepless nights are part of the bliss of being a wooden boat owner. but isn't it great having all that wood around you instead of plastic? Feel free to ask more.------------gary

Hello, My name is Christian Hess and I own a 1958
Herreshoff H-28, traditional design made out of teak
on oak frames, a beutiful little boat that I ha=ve
been slowly repairing since I bought it six months
ago. I bought it in Alameda, Ca and have sailed it to
my country El Salvador, proving that a well designed
boat can go a long ways despite its years.
Well the point of this e-mail is that during the
preparation for the trip to El Salvador we took the
masts off to do some mast varnishing and when we put
them back in with new rigging the rigger and myself
included tightened down the rigging too much, and
slowly by the time we found out the problem in Santa
Barbara, the Garboard strake had been pushed down by
the force of the rigging creating a disturbing leak
under the mast step, during the trip it only got
worse.
The two keel bolts that are directly under the mast
step are the ones leaking, and I have no idea if there
is any damage to the Garboard strake. My question is
do I replace the two keel bolts with oversized ones
and seal them up, reinforce the Garboard strake, or
what??

Christian:
You have a great boat, I am looking for one myself. I am jealous of your trip. Overtightened rigging on a wood boat is a no, no, which you found out the hard way. Normally keel bolts do not leak even if they are stressed but often they appear to leak as the result of the garboard leaking. I would guess most of your problem lies with your garboards at the mast step. I would reef them out along the keel, refasten them and recaulk. If your keel bolts are broken they would give a dead thud sound when you tap on them with a hammer. Compare their sound to that of tapping on the others. If there is a problem you can add a couple of bolts by threading into your keel a distance 3 times the diameter of the threaded bolt [1in bolt= tap 3in]. This is considered as strong as going through the whole keel. I hope this helps, ask more if need be.----------gary

question: Help I just aquired a 1963 Owens 30' flaghip. And of course it leaks. What can I do? It is almost time to lay up in winter storage. It normally placed in a winter slip. I would like to pull it out and fix the hull. What do I do? Thanks.

Congratulations------ You have to find out where it leaks. Most likely along the keel or around the transom. Take up all your floorboards and wet vacuum out all the water then chase down the leak, then write me back. Usually a leak can be fixed with refastening and caulking but you have to know where the problem area is. Also check closely your shaft log i.e. where the shaft comes through the bottom. Good luck--------gary