PAINTING 18

.

question: gary i have a 1968 chirscraft with lapstrek plywood hull
she has plywood with mdo[ medium density overlay ]what
is the bast way to remove 6 layrs of paint
can i use a heat gun ? she is 33 ft long and it would take a lot in striper i am afrade that i will lift the mdo
doug lelacheur pei canada thanks

.

Doug;

Because of the MDO finish, the only way I trust removing the paint
is with an orbital sander with a softpad. No sense in removing it all, just
take it down to where the paint is adhering well.You can also use a palm
sander but it takes a lot of effort to remove a little paint. Those are nice
boats---good luck---gary

.

question: I have coated the inside of my wooden boats bilge with penetrating epoxy then a two part epoxy paint. Did I speed up the rot process? the epoxy paint does not let moisture through. I think oil base paint would have been better.

.

You're correct, oil based paint would have been a better choice for the
reasons you gave. I would just keep some salt water in the bilge to
discourage rot and when the epoxy paint peels off either leave it bare or
paint with oil paint. I use a regular porch & floor paint--tuff
stuff. -----have fun--gary

.

question: This season, I decided to repaint the bootstripe on my Parkins Herreshoff H28 due to some small (1/8in) bubbles/blisters I noted in the existing bootstripe paint, which I assumed to be as result of poor prep or paint selection by the previous owner. In the process of sanding the bootstripe in prep for new paint - I found bubbles in numerous locations not visible on the surface. I chased the bubbles through several paint layers - they seem to reside at the paint/gelcoat interface. There does not appear to be any problem with the gelcoat. The bottom has barrier coat and no blisters. The boat spent several months heavily loaded in fresh water. resulting in the bootstripe being right at the waterline with some growth appearing on the bootstripe paint..

What is causing these blisters/bubbles and how should I prevent them. Is it a sign of high moisture content in the fiberglass??? Did the marine growth penetrate the paint??? Any suggestions would be much appreciated. Chris

.

Chris;

I am not very qualified to give advice on problems with paint and
fiberglass boats but I think your analysis is about as good as it gets. The
marine growth may well have microscopically impregnated the gel coat to
cause slight water penetration. I would tend to strip off the paint and let
the hull dry out , sand the waterline and apply a coat of penetrating epoxy,
then prime first with a fiberglass etching paint then a regular primer, and
finally the finish coats .

Also I would go to the Interlux paint site http://www.yachtpaint.com/usa/
,and ask them for their advice---------good luck--gary

.

question: Mr Wheeler,

I have 1969 32' Grand Banks (mahogany planks/oak frames) up on a very cold clear fresh water lake in North Idaho. We are getting set to haul out and apply bottom paint. What would be your recomendation for bottom paint and also how best do I protect the bilge area from the fresh water.

Thank You

Steve

.

Steve;

You need to know what bottom paint is on there so you can use a compatable one---Hard or soft, vinyl or otherwise. As far as the bilges are concerned put in a salt block or just spread salt around the bilges. Salt kill the rot fungus----g

.

I forgot to tell you the paint. It is Interlux BottomKote - soft. The fellows at

the boat yard are saying if we can strip all of the soft paint off and or find a

hard paint that is compatable, the hard paint would offer better life and

protection in fresh water.

sl

.

A lot depends on how you are going to use the boat. Is it going to stay in the water for long periods of time, with little use or a lot of use or just for one season or so. There are no wood eating worms in fresh water that I know of and the worst bottom growth is only algae & slime mainly at the waterline so the whole thing maybe no big deal. Hard is preferable but the hassle to remove the soft may not be worth the difference. If it were me I would slap on some soft and go boating------g

.

question: Hi Gary,

You have an excellent Webpage and are providing outstanding information, a very worthwhile service of an almost forgotten trade. Your assistance is greatly appreciated by the many you have helped.

Now enough of the mushy stuff!

I have a 38' Pembrooke Cruiser the hull is of Lapstrake construction and it appears to be very solid with only a few planks in the transom requiring replacement, also, the bottom has been fiberglassed by the previous owner. The boat is in Florida and my question is what paint I should use for the hull? I would like to take advantage of some of the new technology developed for marine paints, but there are so... many new products on the market and they all say they are the best. Maybe I should have prefaced this by telling you I am in my mid sixties and have some mobility problems so painting the hull is something I only want to do once in my lifetime. So I would like to do it right with the best products available. Do you recommend any of these for Lapstrake boats; AWLgrip, CFlex, Interlux, etc. Please advise, what is the best product to paint my boat

Thanks,

Bill

.

Bill;

Thanks for the accolades, it helps. Nice boat, deserving of a good paint job. As you know 80% of a good paint job is the preparation. Plenty of sanding, filler and the appropriate primer. As far as the finish goes, if you don't go down to bare wood, you have to make sure what you put on is compatible with what was used before. The more high tech the paint the more difficult the application and the more critical the proper temperature and humidity. I have always used Interlux Brightside enamel with good results and it is easy to touch up over time. I am not much of an expert when it comes to painting and would suggest you get more opinions by asking your question on the forum at www.woodenboat.com. Have fun and send a photo when you're done-------gary

.

.Hi Gary
Your life story of boats warms me inside; anyway I have got
a large problem; about 14ft of problem.
I bought a small sea fishing boat shell for £150, which I thought was a
bargain. Months later with no help
from all the enthusiastic people at the time, I'm getting there slowly;
especially with comments like; that wreck will never sail, followed by
rounds of laughter, It's my first boat and I do not have much money. I am
turning it into a Canal Cruiser. Another problem I have is the advice I get
from amateur house DIY men, never one piece of advice the same, What I need
to know is what preparation and what paint to use for the top and bottom.
The hull is fiberglass, and the top (home made by someone) is made of ply,
(not marine ply) and full of damp.
Please can you help
Gill
.

Gil:
Yes, with boats everyone is an expert. Hull preparation and what paint to use depends a bit on what is on there now. Assuming you can sand or scrape off the existing paint and get down to the bare fiberglass, I would fill any indents with epoxy putty or fairing compound and sand the bare glass lightly. There are many choices of paint types, from basic alkyd all the way to complex two part epoxies. The alkyd or oil base paint is fine for the plywood decks, after they dry out. Unless you are working in a very controlled environment i.e. temp. and humidity controlled which is necessary for the 2 part epoxies, I would recommend you do the hull and bottom with a single part polyurethane (Interlux Brightside is one]. Of course prime first with their suggested primer. Enjoy your new "old" boat. Hope this helps-------gary.

.

Hey there Gary, I have an old houseboat i am renovating, i have had it in the water for a few years. I have it drydocked at the moment and am going to paint the bottom. It is wood and i fiberglassed over it. What kind of paint should i use for it. Anti-fowling, or just a good marine paint, or do you think there is something better that i could use? I am going to leave it in the water again for a few years after i put it in.
Thanks for your help.
Cheers
Mike

.

MIKE;
It depends whether the boat is in fresh or salt water. If fresh, than any good oil based paint is OK, but if in salt water you must use a good toxic bottom paint to keep the little critters from making it a home.-----------------gary

.

I am restoring an old Seabird yawl. The bilges were originally painted
with red lead. What paint can I use over this without stripping?
Thanks, Mike Schifsky, Orcas Island, Wa

.

Mike:
If the red lead is not flaking use any good oil paint, I use porch and floor paint, not many colors but holds up really well. You have a nice boat. I'd like to find one out here. If you have further questions feel free to ask ----------------gary

.

question: I just bought a 1965 Owens Flagship to restore. It has a plywood hull which is in rough shape.The original owner replaced the aft but did not seal any edges.What type of filler and sealers should be used.Also, before I put any sealer on, should the hull be sanded to the bear wood or just roughed up?
Are there any sealers already mixed with paint? If not what kind of paint should I use?
Does the sealer need to be applied below the water line?
Do plywood boats need to swell before putting them into a body of water?
Thank you for answering my questions

.
Hi;
I know those boats well. First, plywood does not swell. Second any exposed edges of plywood must be well sealed preferably with epoxy. The edges are the only area where water can enter and separate the glued plywood layers. The surface of the plywood, if already painted, does not need sealer. Usually sealer is used on new bare wood just to seal the grain, but paint will do the same thing. Always use an oil or alkyd base paint on the topsides, it doesn't have to be Marine, on the bottom use a decent antifouling bottom paint. If the old paint is in decent shape just rough it up a bit before you paint over it. Good luck with your "new" old boat. Feel free to ask questions as needed------gary

.

question: I have a 1964, 31' Richardson and am having problems finding a finish for my deck and cabin top. The original covering is canvas and a rubbery coat. Because of peeling I removed the finish coat of paint last summer and repainted using a "West Marine" polyurathane topcoat.
Looked fine until colder weather (28 to 50 degree) hit this winter. I notice cracking and splitting of my topcoat. The boat is moored in the weather at a marina on Orcas Island, Wa. How were these boats originally finished? What paint to use today? Suggestions? HELP!
Thanks, Gus

.

Gus;
I think the problem is you used a modern product over a traditional one. I would go back to good old oil based paints. Some of the new high tech. products are pretty good but they are real sensitive to application conditions and have compatibility problems. Hope this helps--------------gary.

...

question: Gary,
My name is Rufus. I have a 1975 42ft Hatteras convertible with the dark teak interior. I would like to lighten the interior. What are your sugestions?.

..

Rufus:
Nice boat, but all that teak can make it pretty dark down below. As much as I like teak, visually a little goes a long way. I prefer white or light color surfaces such as ceilings and bulkheads highlighted with teak edging and trim. The easiest way to accomplish this is simply to paint these surfaces. A little white paint goes a long way to brighten things up. Bleaching the teak would be a momentous task with little improvement. Wipe the teak down with acetone before painting. Have fun---gary.

.

..I have a small wood boat I built and I am in the final fairing and sanding of my west epoxy coating I put on it. The boat will be used for duck hunting and will travel in shallow places therefore the bottom is a concern to me. I would like to get a scratch resistant paint at a reasonable cost for the bottom. I will be using a trailer and the boat will not be left in the water so the anti-fouling paints are really not an option as they require the boat to be in the water. I am just looking for a real tough paint and primer to use on this boat.
Thanks. Matt
.

Matt;
Well, since you don't have to worry about antifouling paint, you should just go with a hard paint that is used on the topsides of Boats. Interlux makes a Brightside enamel monopoxy which is good but your best bet may be to call the West System people and see what they reccommend. Congratulations on building your own boat, no easy task whatever the size-------------------------gary

.

Thanks Gary. I have contacted West, but I think I will do what you suggest. I was looking for other options. I am really considering putting down a layer of woven roven on the bottom and up the sides about 3 inches and then covering that with a good latex primer. I can still do that while the epoxy is not cured. Upon curing, the amine blush becomes a problem. I have some glass cloth on the bottom already with 4 layers of epoxy on top of that, but I am concerned nonetheless.
Thanks for replying.
Matt

.

Matt:
Unless you figure the bottom of the boat is going to take a beating and needs more protection, I wouldn't add any more glass to it, plus you would be adding a lot of weight. Don't use a water based latex over epoxy or polyester resin. You either have to use an epoxy paint or use a fiberglass primer before you use an alkyd or oil based paint. Also remember, you can always over think a problem and you can always undo or redo what doesn't work----------have fun----g

.

Gary
I am planning on using a good quality of latex on the entire boat. Again it is a 15 ft, used for duck hunting only. It will not be left in the water and it will be cleaned each time. Furthermore, the entire boat will be coated with epoxy so the epoxy will be the water barrier. I think latex will do just fine. I am not too concerned about the looks and I think the more I use it, the more weathered and better looking it will be. I am building a very wide rub rail on the top of the gunnel to accomodate stainless steel bases onto which I will attach a blind that will fold up and fold down. That will allow me to hunt out of the boat.

After I sent the note, I got to thinking about the weight too. I heard your email come in and was just about to say to heck with the woven. I will fair the holes (small holes after sanding) flow coat with a thin coat of epoxy and put on a good latex primer. I want to complete the hull with primer before I flip it and begin work on the inside.

I have been searching for a way to determine the water line. If you have any suggestions, I am open to them. Also, if you have any suggestions on my painting solution (latex) I am open to those too. West says latex is just fine when applied either this way or after sanding and washing the amine blush off.

I plan on putting a mud motor on here too. I am including 2 shots of the boat before I began all the epoxy surface work and had on the bottom (June 2002). I actually scrapped the first one I did because I did not spread it correctly and I had large gaps between the gunnels and the floor. So this is my 2nd attempt. Then hunting season got in the way.. It does not look much different now except the bottom is on and it is all sanded. I am glad that the sanding is over for now. whewwwwwwwwwww. Upon fairing, I will have spot sanding to do.

If you have any ideas on using something other than plywood for seats, I would like to hear those too. I am thinking about the blue insulation they put into the sides of houses when they are framing them, R13 I think is the factor on it. I was going to use that for a core and fiberglass and epoxy it into seats.
Thanks,
Matt

.

Matt:
Latex paint is water based and will not stick well to West system or any other resin, they are incompatable. I would just eyeball the waterline until after the boat is in the water, then you can mark the true waterline. Reinforced blue board seats would work fine. All sounds good-----g

.

Gary
I have heard differently, and it took a while to convince me. Right now I have a board at home I have covered with latex primer and latex paint as a test. It is looking OK, but I was gonna sand it down and see what happened. I think the oil based paints are probably best too. Will an oil based primer work as well or should I just bite the bullet and go with an epoxy primer? The epoxy primer might also serve as a flow coat too right? Brand suggestions would be appreciated. The Interlux enamel is a suggestion you had, but that was for a paint.
Thanks,
Matt

.

Matt:
You'd have to put your test board under water and out in the weather to see what will happen---Epoxy paint, although a little more demanding to use, would be my choice and yes it would act as a flow coat----------g

.

OK, I will go with the epoxy paint. Again, I was holding off because although I was "convinced" I was never totally convinced so that is why I did the test.
I think the epoxy primer is a better choice.
Thanks, take it easy.
Matt.question: I have a 41' Island Trader sailboat with wooden mast. These were just taken down for inspection and repaint. What do I repaint with. when I sand off the old do I seal first then paint?

.

Hi;
Nice boat. First of all, if the existing paint isn't that bad just lightly sand it and repaint with a high gloss enamel. If you do take off the paint down to bare wood it is advisable to use a wood sealer then a primer then 2 final coats of gloss sanding in between coats. Good luck-------------g

.

Hi, I found your site on "ask jeeves" it is a very interesting & informative site.

I have recently purchased a 32' marine ply fly bridge motor cruiser. It is a sea boat that for the last two years has been used on a river by it`s last owner. I am at present having her shipped by road down to me, where I will spend the next few months repainting etc ready to put her back on my mooring on the estuary for sea use next season.

The previous owner gave her a "one day" repaint of the hull, and cabin as a quick make over, for cosmetic appearance with gloss paint.

There are a few bubbles along the hull in the paint which I think are caused by lack of preparation before painting. If you press the bubbles they burst and oil from the paint comes out. ( the ply behind is hard).

What I would like to know is what type of paint should I use on the hull and cabin above the water line.

And should I use a specific type of anti foul paint below the water or are the all pretty much the same.

Thanks Rob

.

ROB;

The topside paint you would use depends on what is presently on there. Sounds like an oil or alkyd based paint, so you should use the same but I suggest you go to the Interlux website (http://www.yachtpaint.com/) and investigate their products. Also check out their bottom paints. There are basically 2 types, one is soft and ablative, i.e.. it slowly sluffs off and is preferred by those who use their boats often, like commercial fishermen, and a hard usually vinyl based paint preferred by pleasure boaters. Usually the more you pay the more protection you get. Also, since the boat is returning to a salt water environment, you must use some sacrificial zincs to protect the underwater metal parts such as the shaft(s) and rudder(s). Have fun with your new old boat----gary

.

~~~~~~~~~~~~

PLANKS & STUFF 64

.

Hi Gary

I'm getting close to sealing my seams on Nordic Star (double planked mahogany). Some of the seams have large gaps especially where the keel meets the hull. In order not to use an entire can of sealer on one seam I drove in okum on the large seams and cotton on the smaller seams with still plenty of room for a good bead of sealer. I also used okum on the big seam you can see on the keel. Is that the appropriate method? Now for my next issue below is a picture of my stem just below the waterline my idea is to remove the old galvanized carriage bolt and insert a new one and try to suck it up, I'm a little afraid I might split the wood. Do you have any good ideas on how to fix that stem issue. Thanks in advance for all your help.

Kirk

.

KIRK

What you have done is fine but much of the open spacing is from the wood shrinking from drying out and much of it will close up once back in the water and all you do now will just keep the boat from taking on too much water as she swells. This is true of your stem as well. I would not try to close the seam with your new bolt but just snug it up with some cotton and seam compound in the joint and on the next haul-out tighten it a bit.For future reference the wood, called deadwood, below the planks are solid pieces and one can just put tar in those seams without cotton or oakum and the tar will just squeeze out when the wood swells. Nice job Kirk.---gary

.

question: Hi Gary, Enjoy reading your web site and would like to ask you some questions regarding a restoration I am doing a 1958 Islander 24. It is hull #4 of 9 built and is constructed of cold molded triple diagonal planked mahogany. The hull is just over an inch thick. I'm doing what I would consider to be a stage one resoration (servicable with all components replaced or rebuilt but not necessarily show quaility. My questions is that over the years, the planks having gone through many cycles of expansion and contraction and have seemed to have lost some of thier elasticity. I've had the boat in the yard for six weeks to fair the hull. It appears everytime I think I am done with the getting the hull back in tip top shape, it continues "to work" and when I come back the next day expecting to start the painting process, I notice new cracks between the planks or bulges in what was just one day ago an area that was perfectly faired. What would your recommendations be for fill ing these small cracks between the planks and should I be concerned that the instability I am seeing may be caused by the interior planks having apx as much as an 1/8th" gap between them that could possibly be letting in more moisture the the hull and hence the demensional instabilitiy that I'm seeing.

Thanks---Bob J.

.

Bob;

I am afraid you have entered the twilight zone of cold molded hulls.
Although the initial construction method seems sensible, the combination of
characteristically unlike materials, wood and epoxy, has led to many
mysteries in aging hulls.So basically I don't know what the hell is going on
and neither does anyone else. I think your analysis is as good as you'll get
and the easiest solution would be to lower your standards a little more,
50ft away looks good paint job rather than 10ft. Many of these type hulls
were glassed over to further prevent movement but unless one literally laid
up a glass hull over the existing structure I don't think its worth it on an
older boat. In the early 60's the Japanese were making some hulls that used
similarly diagonally layered planks but mechanically fastened them together
with copper rivets and no glue just bedding compound plus canvas.
Interestingly, over time, these hulls displayed none of the problems of the
glued hulls. Good luck with your efforts----ps.-- any epoxy fairing
compound will be fine for filling cracks ---g

.

Hi Gary, thanks for the info. Ironically, my boat was glassed when it was built. On the hull, it is glassed from the keel to 2" above the waterline. The top of the house and the decks are also glassed. This was done at the time of manufacturer and not as a poorly executed after thought by some well intentioned but ill advised boater. Since the boat is already partially glassed, I've been asked by freinds why not just go ahead and glass the hull after I'm done fairing it out. I suppose my hesitance is that this particular boat has quite a history and as such, I'm trying to keep it as original as possible. Right down to keeping the kermath sea twin in prime operating condition. I've contacted the people at "the rot doctor" and essentially was advised to treat the hull with CPES prior to painting. I believe that since the planks on the interior of the hull have up to an 1/8" gap, there is probably a bit more atmospheric water vapor entering the hull from the interior than would normally be the case. What would you recommed for treating and filling these gaps on the hull interior?

thanks again,--bob

.

Bob,

Normally I am against using CPES over good wood but with your problem it
may help.On the inside seams, a poly caulk like sikaflex would work. You
want something with flex but not an adhesive like 3M 520-----g

.

Hi Gary, Ok,sikaflex on interior planks and I'm assuming it's paint friendly. I'm using Interlux Toplac, single part polyurethane for the exterior hull and irrrespective of the shock of some, I'm painting the it black. The boat is in southern ca. with an average temp of 62 degrees (temperate climate) because of the high reflectivity of the finish, I've checked the hull temperature during the hottest periods of the day and it is cooler than the pale somewhat oxidized petit carribbean blue that was formerly on it. She also is kept under a well ventilated full cover when not in use. Was planning on using on oil based paint on the interior however, to let the wood breath. I've heard that wayne ettel is a proponet of putting expoxy on interior surfaces to keep the wood dry. I suppose I'm on the fence on that one since I already have the polyurethane on the exterior of the hull. It would be nice finished bright, but with the seams being caulked, I don't think it would be all that attractive. Do you see any problems with my approach.

thanks again for your valuable input.---Bob

.

Basic approach OK, but a black hull in that climate, no mater the paints
reflectability, will heat up and dry out the wood , plus black shows up all
imperfections. Go white---cool and hides imperfections. But your boat, your
choice, then I can say "told you so"-----g

.

Hi Gary

I'm still working on Nordic Star the 36ft trawler I'm getting ready
to replace some planks, my question is, should I make the tolerances
between the planks as tight as I can. Some existing planks seem to
have a very close fit and some have a slight space between them wide
enough to take caulking. Do I need to leave room between the new
planks for expansion or fit them tight?
Thanks in advance for your help, more pictures to come.

Kirk

.

KIRK;

Glad you are still at it. If the plank seams are caulked with cotton and
seam compound you need to have a beveled seam< with the inside edges closer
together that the outer ones.This allows the cotton to be pounded in without
driving it through. If the planks are not caulked then close fits are
important. Topside planks will swell less than bottom planks so leave a
little more gap on the bottom seams----------g

.

question: Hi Gary, I am not new to boats but I am to wooden boats. I am thinking of purchasing a 30 plus foot owens which appears to be in great shape and have been told by some that it is. It is double planked. the boat has been out of the water for about 8 months. I noticed that the planks towards the bow under the water line are cupping.. Am I looking at a serious problem? Anything you could offer would be much appreciated..Thanks Barry

.

Barry;

Probably nothing serious but I would pull a couple fastenings in
that area and make sure they still have holding power. Also check for any
soft wood at plank ends stem and stern and at the upper corners of the
transom. These are common rot areas caused by fresh water intrusion. Have
fun with your new old boat------gary

.

Hi Gary, I forgot to ask you in my previous question what are some of the
causes of planks cupping? Thank you once again. BarryHi Gary, I forgot to ask you in my previous question what are some of the causes of planks cupping? Thank you once again. Barry

.

BARRY;

A plank can cup either concavely or convexly depending on the
type wood and the cause. Convex cupping usually occurs from the plank being
too tight from overcaulking and having no room to swell, concave usually
results from fastening failure.-------g

.

.

question: Hello Gary

I came across this web site while researching a 45ft Chris Craft Catalina (1953 vintage) that found it's way into my driveway .

My son decided I would have all the time in the world to restore it , while he's going to school in Australia.

It's a massive double plank mahogany,twin engine dinosaur. The hull has been out of the water for eight-plus years .She's well dried and dry rotted. The superstructure has considerable dry rot . Cabin sides,particularly around the windows are being rebuilt.The hull however, is basically very sound .We have completely gutted the interior in preparation for replumbing as well as rewiring .I'm not the least bit phased by the interior work , by concerns lie below the waterline . The two longest planks , right at the chine have to be replaced and the chine logs are surface rotted.I suspect they need replacing - unless I can but meterial above and below the existing logs ans fasten the new planks accordingly. I'd like your advice on that please .

there's one more curious item I want to mention . In the bottom , are two large metal pLates, perhaps 30 inches by 72 inches running parallel to the keel.These are nailed into the bottom and not caulked or sealed in any way . I can't tell if these are perhaps bonding material or just a jury-rigged patch to cover some leaky planking . I'm reluctant to rip them off without understanding why they are there. I can't find any connecting wire inside the hull, so I tend to discount the bonding theory .

Any advice would be greatly appreciated .

Harry

Lefroy,Ontario

Canada

.

Harry;

Amazing how those old wooden boats just appear in the driveways of
those who will treat them kindly. Quite a job you have taken on, I salute
you. Sounds like you pretty much know what you have to do. The question of
the chine log replacement really depends on if the rot has weakened the
structure or is just cosmetic. Be that it is a high stress area I would be
reluctant to do just a patch job instead of replacement if needed
Unfortunately with the metal plates, the only way to figure out why they are
there is to take them off. My guess would be your guess, patches for leaky
areas. Let me know what you find and send some photos as you
progress-------gary

.

question: what cause wood planks to pop off in rough water

.

Bad fastenings

.

question: Gary, I have enjoyed reading though your Q&A section and hope you can give me some advice. I have a 31' Monterey Clipper, built as a yacht by Cheoy Lee of 1.25" x 1.5" mahogany strips. The strips are coved and edge-nailed, and I think glued. She has been ashore for 3 years and is very dry. The seams have opened. The prior owner, who never had her in the water, started a messy job of paying the seams with some type of adhesive caulk, which I assume has to come out, and the seams filled with seam compound. The largest opening is the width of a dime, many are just cracks in the paint. I doubt I'll be able to get paint in the seams to prime them. I guess the other option is the reglue the seams, but I am wary of epoxy on these strips, which will want to swell. I'd appreciate any advice. Sam

.

Sam;

I like those boats. Usually the strips are always glued as well as nailed
and often fiberglassed over so the wood doesn't expand and contract. The
concept being you end up with a very solid lightweight structure that has
very little flex and requires a minimum of interior support. The ideal
solution for your problem would be to saw a curf in the open seams and fill
with a epoxy and fiberglass over the whole hull. Short of that, and much
less work, you can clean out the open seams and fill with the 3m polysulfide
5200 which behaves like a glue but remains flexible so the wood can still
swell. Good luck-------g

.

Hi Gary

HAPPY NEW YEAR!!

Finally finished the bulwarks, now I'm chasing rot on the foredeck. I
removed the fiberglass that was on the deck and discovered a
traditional teak deck. I removed the teak and now I'm down to 3/4 in.
plywood. Some of it is badly rotted so I'm replacing it where necessary. My plan is to put 3/8 in. plywood over the 3/4 to take the place of the teak deck and then use a product from the rot doctor to
water proof that. Can 3/4 in cdx plywood be used to make the repairs
to the rotted deck instead of marine plywood? Someone told me that
exterior construction grade plywood uses the same glues as marine
ply, is that right? Here are some progress pics. I will email some
pics of the deck area next time.
Thanks for your help, Kirk

.

Kirk;

Looking good Kirk. Nice to be putting together rather than taking
apart. It is true that all plywood uses water proof glue but all but marine
and cabinet grade use fillers in some of the layers instead of solid wood
and do have come voids which allow moisture to develop and do not have as
many layers. On parts of the boat that are easily accessible and not
structural, like the bulwarks, using it is OK, but in areas that are
structural and not easily replaceable, like the deck, it is worth the extra
bucks to go marine or cabinet grade.----- be careful, keep it up and you'll
finish and have to find another project.For many of us, it is the process we
love.------gary

.

question: I'm currently repairing my 36 ft trawler Nordic Star. I'm replacing some planks and refastening where necessary, also I have redesigned the bulwarks in the forward section. I decided to eliminate the inside bulwarks where they meet the forward deck. This way no water can collect in the encased bulwarks which was a source for rot. The frames now will be showing. I will paint them to match the deck and I think it will give the boat a bit of a work boat look which I think is nice. While the boat is out of the water I will also do necessary work on the hull. This is a double planked design so the gaps between the planks are pretty tight. When reading about caulking planked boats apparently the planks are tapered. The gaps between my planks seem to be straight (not tapered). Do I caulk the joints using cotton or oakum and then seam sealer such as 3M 5300 or just seam sealer? What I'm cleaning out of the seams appears to be dried out sealer of some sorts. Thanks for your!
terrific web site, I'm learning a lot. I would like to send you some pictures, how can I co that. kirk

.

Kirk;

Pics would be great--just attach them to an email---if not digitized,
have them scanned first. If the seams are not beveled cotton is not intended
and without the bevel to set the cotton against, would be useless. Use a
regular seam compound not a polysulfide like 5200, which is more like glue
and impossible to remove. Interlux makes a brown for underwater and a white
for the topsides.I like what you are doing with her and look forward to some
pics--------Thanks for the kudos on the site--------gary

.

Hi Gary

Here are some pictures. Chasing a lot of rot in the bulwarks. Thanks
for your quick response. You and your website are such a terrific
source of information. Thanks again, KIrkHi Gary
Here are some pictures. Chasing a lot of rot in the bulwarks. Thanks
for your quick response. You and your website are such a terrific
source of information. Thanks again, KIrk

.

Kirk

Thanks for the pics, nice boat. If the bulwarks weren't so necessary to
the sheer line of the boat, I would say just cut them off and put up a
stainless rail but they are important.That said and to avoid setting up the
same bad rot conditions, I would plank up the bulwark leaving a 1-2 inch
space in-between each plank and either do the same on the inside or as you
plan just leave the frames exposed on the inside. This allows for good air
circulation and an occasional good wash down with salt water which kills the
rot spores. Now send a pic when your done-------g

.

Hi Gary

I have decided to us plywood on the bulwarks and restore the boat to
its original design, although your suggestion on using planks was
interesting and I gave it some thought, but I had already bought the
plywood. Today was a very productive day I was able to spend ten
hours uninterrupted and reached a milestone, today the first section
of bulwarks was reinstalled. So instead of chasing rot and doing more
demo I actually did some construction. It was an emotional boost, the
boat is starting to go back together, It's a good feeling. I'm
thinking ahead and painting seems to be occupying a lot of my
thoughts. So here is the $64.000 question. Polyurethane or enamel on

the hull? Because the boat is stored on private property I have the
option to spray. Everyone seems to have a different opinion on this
subject. What's yours? Gary, I'm going to thank you in advance for
your contribution the DIY boat guys, I hit pay dirt with your
website. Thanks for sharing your expertise. I'm going to take my
camera with me tomorrow so progress pictures will follow this email.

Kirk

.

Kirk;

Nice to hear from you again and glad you are back on the project.
These rebuilds can get overwhelming and a bit unmanageable at times but just
showing up eventually gets the job done. With painting I stick pretty much
with oil or alkyd based enamels because of their versatility in a variety of
conditions whereas the polyurethane and epoxy paints require fairly
controlled atmosphere to perform properly although the results can be quite
impressive.Look forward to more pics. Thanks for the kudos on the site, it
makes me feel useful-----gary

.

Hi Gary

The project is progressing well. I had a week off of work so I got a
lot done. Today I installed the first layer of the final piece of
bulwarks for the starboard side. As you can see by the pictures I
have created the scuppers. And as you can see I have reformed the
stem in the area where the bulwarks will attach. Now my thoughts are
staring to focus on the reinstallation of the rub rail. A friend of
mine who is an expert on cold moulding suggests I epoxy the rub rail
to the hull. I know that is not a classical approach to wooden boat
repair, but it sounds like it might be a good idea. What do you
think? Also while I have your attention I'm having a hard time
finding Fillippine mahogany for the plank replacement (above
waterline) I have been told VG Doug Fir is a good substitute. Do you
agree?

.

Kirk;

Looking good , real good. Vertical grain fir or spruce makes a fine
planking material. I would not recommend epoxying a rub rail for the very
nature of a rub rail is that it is somewhat sacrificial and should be easy
to replace. Mechanical fasteners work best for this job. Keep up the good
work. -----g

.

Hi Gary

I'm going to take your advise and use the marine ply for the deck.
In a previous email you suggested that I do not cold mold epoxy the
rub rail to the boat, I agree. So, what bedding material do you
suggest I use as a bedding compound for the rub rail? I'm concerned
about water getting in behind the rub rail so I thought I still might
put an epoxy fillet on the top edge of the rail. In the event that
any rail need to be replaced in the future only a small amount of
grinding will be necessary to remove the fillet. Updated pics coming
soon.
Thanks for all your help Gary

Kirk

.

Kirk;

The only true bedding compound I know of is Dolfnite , available in
marine stores. It stays pliable which makes removal easy. The polysulfides
like 3m's 5200 behave like a glue, and tar roof patch is excellent but
sloppy and hard to deal with in high use areas.Dolfinite's the best.-------g

.

Hi Gary

It's me again, I'm ready to resurface the deck. The original fore deck starts out with 3/4 ply then teak slats and then later someone fiberglassed over the teak. I removed the fiberglass and teak and now the 3/4 ply is ready for a layer of 1/2 in. ply. The 3/4 was pretty bad in places so I replaced where necessary. I feel like I should put something between the old 3/4 and the new 1/2 in. ply. Do you think the lagging compound that you talk about on the website would be appropriate to put between the layers of ply? Also how do you make a nonskid deck using epson salt?

Thanks so much for your help Gary

Kirk

P.S. If you ever find yourself on the West Coast please look me up I would be honored to take you out on the boat and show you the beautiful Southern California coast and Channel Islands.

.

Kirk;

Good informing photos. Make sure any areas left behind that have any rot are treated with antifreeze to kill any rot spores before they are covered over. In between the plywood layers I would use the wet dry roof cement , it prevents condensation and seals the 2 layers together. The lagging compound is best used on the deck surface in conjunction with a fiberglass screen, bug screen works fine. First paint a coat of lagging cut 25% with water on the new deck wood, let dry. Cut your screen to size and lay it into wet full strength lagging, let dry and add coats until screen is all filled in , 3 to 4 coats. To make the non skid surface, after the 1st coat of paint, tape out your edges for water runoff, put down another coat of paint liberally sprinkling Epson salt into the wet paint.Make a shaker for the salts out of a can with holes in the end. After that is dry wash it thoroughly with fresh water, dissolving all the salt leaving behind the dimples it created, then paint one more just paint coat over that surface. Provides great non skid surface, gentle on your feet and kind to your knees when kneeling and easy to redo when it wears thin.

Thanks for the invite, I've sailed down from SF a couple of times going by the Islands but never stopping by for a look, so If I get out that way I'll let you know.------g

.

Kirk;

I forgot to mention that when using lagging compound you must add some mold inhibitor to it. Years ago there was a lagging compound called Aerbol which had the inhibitor in it and was used widely on boats especially in California and Florida. Aerbol is no longer on the market and with all the new high tech surfacing compounds, it is difficult to even find a plain lagging adhesive compound.I found one resource that you should contact to find a distributor where you are located.--g

Childers products Inc.
215-943-7600
cp-50a mvi
Chil-seal

.

question: How best would one go about a removal, refit or replacement of a mahogany garboard strakes on a carvel planked lobsterhull?

.

It can be fairly straightforward or a real pain in the butt depending on a variety of variables, but the basics are first removing all the caulking {including the cotton} from all the seams of the garboard, second remove the fastenings holding the plank on, third remove the plank and use it as a template for the new one, third fill the fastening holes in the frames and keelson with glued in wood plugs, fourth, cut the new plank slightly proud and bevel the seams for caulking, install the plank, steaming it first if need be. Plug screw holes and caulk the seams with cotton and underwater seam compound.

At each of these stages you will no doubt run into difficulties and obstacles that will have to be overcome with creativity and prayer but that is what makes it fun. Ask more specifics as needed--------gary

.

where does the stopwater (s) come into play on a garboard refasten?

.

The stopwater goes transversely through the below water line joint on the stem which usually falls beyond the forward end of the garboard but occasionally one must adapt the garboard to it. If it falls under the garboard , and since it is usually fashioned from a soft wood which can get "tired" after many swellings and dryings out, I would replace it when the old plank is removed.-------g

.

when would you join me in Newcastle (Riverside Boat Co) for this adventure!!?!?!?!?

.

Graham;

Thanks for the invite but as you know, when spring breaks , projects galore take over, plus you can handle it. One question I should ask is why does the garboard need replacement? Often they just need refastening and recaulking or a lead patch properly placed.-------g

.

I know about the enormity of projects and in no way expected you. Was kidding.
It is correct that it is re-bedding & refastening the planks is needed and attention to the stopwater must be addressed.
More thank likely the planks are sound as Norman Hodgdon chose his mahogany well. There is no plank hull rot.
I reefed the seams full midship last year both sides.
In reefing I removed lots of nasty smelling cotton, compound and some wood that shaved off with the reefing hook.
Then the estimable Paul Bryant of Riverside Boat Company re-caulked w/ cotton and compound.
Yet leaks redeveloped.
Gotta believe full refastening of garboars here is needed.
I can never see leaks other than weeps along the keel in the bilge.
Weeps can produce lots of water I know but where I can not see from aboard is the forward bilge

.

Actually, I am a bit jealous, I like that plank work. I see by your synopsis that you have been dealing with this over some time, but you have not yet refastened these areas. The dark smelly cotton is usually fuel soaked which breaks down the cotton making it no longer an effective gasket. Plus , it sounds like the planks are working too much and need that refastening which ideally should be done with reefed seams but can be effective without that effort. Nice looking boat, sweet lines-----g

.

question: Hi Gary

Just happened upon your site, very nice job you have done.

I have owned a 68' Far East Yachts- H28 for several years. She is double planked african mahogany over yacal ribs. She has brought us much fun while we have had her . While there was much "Defered" maintainence due, It was mostly cosmetic as Freyja was very structurally sound until. The other evening I got tangled in Lobster pot lines after dark under power. With a fair breeze and solid swell running I swiftly made way down on rocks before I could get sail up. Freyja bounced on the breakwater for about a half hour before Harbor patrol was able to grapple her off rocks. She pulled free and sat at water line but began sinking after about ten minutes of towing.

Patrol kept her pumped and we were able to haul her.

She sits in a reputable "wooden boat" yard and that my be part of my discouragement. They have told me she is a total and will require well over $125,000.00 to bring her back,Lol. Here's the thing, She's 40 years old bulit like a brick shit house. I paid under 7k for her in an auction a while back. The insurance is gonna give me approx 12k. I didn't have replacement value ins. unfortunately. Boatyard suggests I take the check , cut the chain and go buy a new boat. I find this somewhat peculiar considering their appreciation of wood boats. They are suggesting she be sold for salvage. I must question this and am afraid I'll walk away and two weeks later she'll be under new yard worker ownership undergoing plank replacing.

Her damage. He took most on starboard side.I would send pics but ,my camera isn't agreeing with me since salt water bath. I will get some to you. Most major - impact to front starboard below water line by rock, cracked outer and inner planks (3) Clear through, cracked rib 1 or more.its small one 1 sq 8" area seemingly sound all around.

additional damage starboard midship looks like boulder tried to peek in and then hull pushed back.No remaining visible hole through just visible crack in planks and cracked rib or two. slight impact on port bow below waterline, looks like it could be epoxied and caulked then painted. also lost that barn door rudder. At this point she was holding water in,lol, just below the puncture. Keel looks solid just scraping to fore keel. bottom is where the pain is , beside 1' section of toerail and damage that stern rail took on saving boat topsides are the same as they were.

I have 5 summers in a boatyard from 15- 20 years old ,that was a long time ago. I am a general & plumbing contractor, many tools.

I was thinking of taking the insurance check minus a little for buying her back as salvage and then fixing her.

In my heart I don't believe shes anywhere due for the boneyard.

I would like to start by making her floatable. does pressuring her cracked ribs outward and then sistering new with epoxy and perhaps mechanically sound feasible?

With planking , should I remove the completely fractured ones back to or before the next sound rib? since shes double planked, horizontal outside and diagonal underneath do I stagger the locations where I cut the planks outer and inner and just and ribs at new joint locations?

What is your feeling on west system epoxy the hull, not fiberglassing.

I want her to be safe and sound. The boatyard is all for saving her if she's taken apart bit by bit. How do you determine when thats necessary because she sure feels solid. i don't want to sail her to Hawaii just out to the bouy:)

I'll get you some pics.

Thanks --Dan

.

Dan;

The H-28 is one of my favorite boats, a near perfect balance of form and function. She certainly sounds fixable, with time being the largest commodity needed. All your suggestions are doable with the exception of quick fix epoxy which I would only use for cosmetic repairs. I would try to replace the whole damaged rib, short of that, sister those damaged and the replaced planks should be as long as practical. The yard is no doubt being overly cautious. Send the photos and let me ask , where is she located now?---gary

.

Hi Gary

Thanks so much for the quick reply and encouraging words.

I will surely get you some pics in the next few days.

Freyja is located in Ventura Harbor boatyard, Doug Shumperts yard.

After seeing her bounce on the rocks the way she did and now seeing actual damage

I am only more convinced of her integral strength. She is truly balanced and poised in heavy seas and weather. Eveyday I go by She looks more promising, The first day she was pulled things looked worse, hul was half filled and things were really hammered. Now that I have cleaned things up , drained her out and isolated the damages I feel more certain I will not let her go. The damages are very well accessible from inside one being under bunk amidship and other main damage is under v berth and good access as well.

I realize time being the biggest deal, The yard estimates it will take me 5 years trying to fix her myself. When they told me that I realized they don't know me very well. I really felt that was a scare tactic. When you see the pictures I think you will agree.

Thanks Gary--Speak Soon
Dan

.

Dan;

Is that Ventura Ca., somehow lobster traps and California don't mix, must be a Ventura in New England. It is a bit surprising the yard is so thoroughly negative, unless as you say, they want the boat. Wooden boats are built to be fixed, yours being a bit more complicated with the inner diagonal planks, but 5 years is ridiculous. You'll be sailing next summer-----g

.

Hi Gary

Thanks again. You were right the first time. Ventura , Ca. And the pots didn't mix with my boat thats for sure. Suprisingly Potting is pretty big here.

They go for the california spiny lobster out here, No claws. there are at least 100 pots off the breakwater and all around the general area

Yes, The diagonal sub planking is a concern , But I am not afraid.

The funny thing about the yard is they finished a H28 complete renovation last year, They know the boat. The manager seems like a real straight shooter and I trust him but I must say I am a little suprised he suggests scrapping her. His main point is that wood wears out 30-40 years and thats where I am. Sorry but in general the boat is solid like a rock, He doesn't really refer to the damage as the reasoning. He says he has seen people crumble to their knees , lose relationships and so forth trying to rebuild a wooden boat. I have looked around to see if possibly I could just cut the chain and buy another boat. In doing so I am realizing how much boat I already have. I think my first step, once insurance pays, will be to move her to a less expensive storage.

I'll get you those pics.

Cheers-------Dan

.

question: Gary,

great site, Got 65' rigged 90 year old baltic ex fishing boat. Oak on oak 2" planks boat has a lot of history(used between Denmark/Sweden during WW2) Presently on the hard for a renail.The planking is in good condition, however in one particular place below the waterline has almost 1" gap.the oakum caulk had been driven into a light steel vee located on the inboard side of this planking . As I wish to retain the original oak planking I was thinking of splining this gap with cedar, stepped, tarred and screwed into position on the lower routed plank leaving the usual gap on top for caulking. What do you think and have you ever come across the use of light steel vee as described.

Many thanks

Sean (Ireland)

.

Sean;

Interesting boat , send pics if you have any. Your plan sounds good and no, I have never heard of caulking to a steel V especially from the inboard side . Have fun with this wonderful classic. Ask more when needed-----gary

.

question: I have a 1961 36 ft. Chris Craft Sea Skiff and I am replacing some planks in the hull above the waterline that have rotted from leaking windows is 5200 OK to seal or bond the new planks with at the seems. Its a lap strake hull Thanks Ray

.

Ray;

3m 101sealant is better for your purpose, 5200 acts like a very strong glue which eliminated the ease of any later repair------g

.

question: Gary - I am about to replace the planks over new marine plywood on the aft bottom of my 1970 Owens Aruba . I need a suitable bedding . You recomend Henry's roof tar? I have never seen or heard of this brand . Is it readily available? Also the boat had cotton in the seams. Which is easier wick or caulking cotton. After the seams are caulked with cotton what should I caulk over with . I was going to use roof mastic from Home Depot before I found your web site. Thanks, Bill from Michigan

.

Bill;

I am not sure of the location of your fix or why there are planks over marine ply unless you are doing the Transom. Either way any brand roof patch tar will do for the bedding but for the seams you are better off with Interlux seam compound, white for topsides , brown for underwater. If the planks are tight, cotton string placed down the center of the seam is fine, but if the seam is wide and irregular you will have to use the loose stuff.-------g

.

question: Gary - I'm Bill with the 42'Owens Aruba , This boat has 19/32"thick x 5 3/16"wide mahogany planks over orginal 3/8" mahogany plywood from the keel to the chine then the plywood is 1/4" mahogany ply on the sides with 1/2" mahogany planks over. This was the last year they were built, 1970. The area I'm working on is from in front of the engine water intakes to the transom. I have about 20 planks 10' to 10 1/2' off each side of the keel. Ive been told Owens didn't build a hull this way. This is factory as you can tell the way the red colored caulk ozzed and dripped when the hull was upside down and the plywood was applied on the caulk.

.

Bill;

I have never heard of that type of construction but that's what you got so that's what you have to deal with. I imagine it was an attempt to keep the hull light and strong.--------g

.

question: Gary - It's me Bill with the Owens again . The orginal bedding for the planks on to plywood was the canvas coated with "Thiokol" which looked like dried out window glazing when I removed it. The reason this project started was I had some rotted frames and punky plywood in the bottom. I think the frames or large bottom cross ribs rotted from no air circulation in the bottom behind the shaft tunnels I intend to remedy this . I have replaced all the bad ribs and cross members , the plywood is now marine 3/8" one coat each side of West epoxy and painted inside. This spring I am ready to replace the bottom planks many which came off and are still good ,all old screw holes plugged . After reading many of your suggestions I am not sure what to do about the bedding compound. Do you know if this Thiokol is still available? If not, the roof mastic spred in a thin layer should do the trick . Any other suggestions will be appreciated .

I have orginal sales brouchures from 1967 that say the boat was doubled and that the inter layer was 3/8" but they don't say it was plywood. Thanks , for your help and I enjoy the suggestions and advise you have given others. You have a great site. Bill

.

Bill:

Thanks for the compliments. I don't believe Thiokol is still available but actually I think a thinned coat of the roof cement would do just as well. Sounds like you bit off a large project and are bringing it home. Congratulations-------g

.

question: HI Gary, I have finally found you again.Saw your column somewhere, didn't save the website and have been hunting for you and yr advice for the last couple of days.Reading many of your Qs & As I have learnt a lot but haven't spotted this query yet. I have just bought a damaged neglected do-up. Kinya is a 1964(ish) german built 37' mahogany carvel plank sloop. She must've made the builders proud enough to wear their plate: Matthiesen & Paulsen from Arnis/Schlei.(Bau nr.212 or 272).I Know nothing of her history except a couple of years ago she had broken her mooring in a storm, kissed a few yachts as she ventured `solo' up the estuary, unceremoniousy resting on a sandbar. Her full keel, and hull (apart from repairs) look fine even after her 14 month layup in the previous owners backyard(Obviously taken there immediatley after her mishap). Her hull had hardly opened and she only dribbled a little when I was forced to put her in the sea for a quick limp to her new home.!

Her mahogany planks seem solid except for where 2 planks (on both starboard and port above the garboard have been relpaced with kauri. They had also been caulked. The rest of the hull for what i can see, is double plank and the joins seem so tight(to my amateur eye) that I cannot imagine cotton or anything else fitting in the hairline joins other than the red coloured seam filler. My questions. 1) Is/was it a common practice for yachts of this area/vicinity to start with a couple of single planks above the garboard ? 2) Could the repair work have been carried out `because of the rocking back and forward on the sand bar and could she have some keel damage ? The keel bolts are bronze and look `solid'would sending a few pics help?

question: Continuing query for Kinya. My first attempt to bring Kinya to her new home went horridly wrong when I lost oil pressure and gained a sickly `knock' in the engine. off went the motor which was charging the batteries which were working hard out for the bilge pumps which were called into action after we had pound for 5 hours into a 1 m slop, creating seam openings I would guess were in the vicinity of 150 gallons per hour. So detoured to a marina where she was put in a sling and I removed all caulking from her leaky bits and (amateyrishly/regretfully)`rammed' some fresh caulking in followed up with sikaflex and 3" ply planks with ss screws as patchwork to get her up for the other 10 hr leg of her journey to auckland.Now I am having fun trying to remove all sikaflex. Whats a good easy way to remove this rubbery substance ?

thanks Tony Auckland,NZ

.

Tony

--Interesting boat, and yes Pic's always help. On a double plank construction there would be no reason for any single planks above the garboard. Sometimes for weight reasons the double planks ended at the waterline with singles going up the topsides. Seems to me the new planks you describe because of their location and the fact the replacements were on both sides of the boat, that the old planks were removed to inspect and make repairs to some damaged frames. They were just lazy in putting back single planks or the repairs were not done and these planks were made to remove again to make repairs at a later time. Also often with double planking the seams were matched fit, those compulsive Germans, and required no caulking. Bronze keelbolts rarely break and if they were bent you would see that in the keel position. To your second email,

Nasty stuff that polysulfide, no simple way of removal although I hear that heating it up helps. If you have no inside access, you should pull those caulked planks and see what's up and then double plank as per the rest of the hull.---glad you found me-------gary

.

question: Nice message board! I am the very proud young owner of a 1954 Owens Flagship 29' Motor Yacht, She is double plaked Philippian Mohogany and has some rot problems. My question is now that I have stripped the MANY coats of paint from the hull what type of seam compound should I use for the 1/8" gaps between the 1/2" planks. Also the screw holes, what shall I fill those with. The stuff I am plucking out seems to be brown wood filler. Lastly, about 6 planks need replacing for sure, the boat is now dry and been out of the water for years and the new wood is also dry. How much gap should I leave between the new & old planks? Last question, a couple planks just have 1/4" of rot on the outside edges of the seams. Can I shave off the rot and fill the gap with an epoxy sawdust mix? At $4.50 a board foot the mohogany is costing me a fortune!
Thanks for your advice,
Ben

.

Ben:
You have one of the better built Owens, over the years they used many different construction methods and materials, but the double planked ones were the strongest of the lot. I would use Interlux bottom seam compound to fill the gaps between the planks, polysulfides are too permanent and when the bottom swells most of the seam compound will be pushed out. With the oil based compound you can easily trim off the pushed out excess when next you haul the boat. I would fill the screw head holes with an epoxy paste like MarineTex. I am assuming the seams are not caulked with cotton. Since the new planks will swell considerably, I would leave a good 1/8in gap on all seams including the butt ends. Using epoxy to fill in the edges of the planks where you have removed the rot is not a good idea, it will fall out. Instead, put in small wood dutchman using epoxy, but do not epoxy them to the underneath plank, however screwing them to that plank is ok. Screws do not inhibit swelling of the wood, epoxy does. The outer and inner planks will swell at different rates so any epoxy between the two will cause problems. When you pull off the old planks that need replacing look closely to see if there is a bedding compound between the two. If so, you do the same with the new ones. Roofing tar is cheap and works well as an underwater bedding compound. When you launch the boat have a good bilge pump, she is bound to take on water. Unless there is a leak not related to swelling, the amount of water taken on should 1/2 itself every 24rs. If she still takes on water after a week there is probably a non swelling leak that must be tracked down. Have fun and feel free to ask more questions as you work along.------------g

.

question: Great page, Your detailed answers are greatly appreciated! I have another questions about my '54 Owens, I had asked about plank replacement & rot repair. My next questions is about proper finishing sequence. I have been told to treat the bare wood with a mix of raw linseed oil & turpintine. Should this treatment be done before or after calking seams and putty filling screw holes. The seam compound instructions say to primer the wood first. What should by steps be in order? Strip, Treat, Prime, Seam fill, paint? Will the putty stick if the wood is saturated with linseed oil? Lastly, the bottom is fiberglassed over the wood, just the transision from wood to glass is starting to seperate now that I have stripped the paint. What is the best way to re-seal and fasten the glass to the wood to prevent the glass from seperating worse. This area is right around the water line. The rest of the bottom is in great shape.
Thanks again for your informative page and prompt answers for us green horn backyard boat lovers.
Sincerly,
Ben Roche

.

Ben;
Thanks for the compliment, I enjoy answering the questions. Your sequence is basically correct. If you thin the linseed and let it warm up a bit in the sun, it should soak in well and not prove to be a problem with the seam compound. You may have to wait a couple of days for it to dry. If you are filling holes or screw heads with epoxy, do that before you oil. Prime your seams with an oil based paint before you putty as well as using it for your general painting. If you are going to use polymer paint, don't oil.
Where the fiberglass ends and the bear wood begins is always a problem, especially on older boats. This is a critical area because once water gets under that glass it will keep moving and eventually separate the two. I usually trim the glass to a nice true line and cover the edge with a screwed on batten well bedded in a polysulfide like 3m 5200. You can round off the batten to make it "fit in". Also, often with the Owens I worked on I put a similar batten well bedded in the joint between the garboard plank and the keel for this area seemed to be a leaky spot. You may not need this but if you find your boat has a steady leak, the bet is it's coming from that area. Have fun----------gary

.

Great, I am not as dumb as I feel with this project. I like your batt Idea,
I have already ordered some Marine Tex for the screw holes so I will do that
before I treat the wood with the linseed oil. I have a detailed process sent
to me by a Shipwright in Canada about using thinned linseed oil 75/25 then
50/50 then 25/75 on the last few applications and letting in dry for a week
before primer. Have you heard of this?, he said he restored his boat 20
years ago this way and has lasted well.
Thanks again.
Ben

.

Ben:
The linseed oil treatment is pretty tried and true, but normally it is used on softer woods like pine, spruce, fir etc. because they are porous. The hardwoods, maple, oaks, mahogany, etc., don't benefit that much because they absorb little. I have never used it on Mahogany, but if it is extremely dried out then I am sure the linseed treatment as he specified is a good idea---------gary

.

Thanks for the update, Yeah the 75% of the planks have been exposed for over
a year, I bought the project unfinished and stripped the last 25% of the
paint over the last weekend. Now I need to find a trick to get the old seam
compound out. Any ideas? The stuff is tight in the plank gaps and brittle so
it looks like a long, long, tedious project. Fun, Fun, Fun!
Thanks again and I will leave you alone for awhile.
TTYL
Ben

.

Ben:
I don't mind the questions. It is hard to get the old caulk out. The quickest way I know is to use a small circular saw with a batten tacked up for a guide. Wear goggles and try putting a carbide tip blade in backwards. This method seems arduous with all the measuring and moving the batten, but in the long run it is much faster and leaves you with good seam edges.----------g

.

I have a Folkboat that is planked with i believe fur. It was origionaly varnished in side. The varnish is lifting espically below the waterline and the wood is dry and cracking. What should i use to revitialize the planks.
Regards
Erik Midtsjo
.

Erik:
You have one of the prettiest boats ever designed. With the planks below the water line I would strip off the remaining varnish and oil them. You can either thin down linseed oil with turpentine or you can use an oil called Penetrol, available in paint stores. Give them several coats or until a little oil remains on the surface, that way you know the wood has absorbed what it needs. Wipe off the excess and you have a happy boat.------------gary

.

Hi My name is Rich Sank I own a 40 post located in CT. She is a soft chine vessel. My problem is the stbd aft quarter has rot from fresh water run off. The top 2"-3"of 4 planks are rotted. I've removed 6 planks to gain access to good wood to make the repairs. There are 6 oak frames that need replacement. 2 frames below the opened area are in question (below the water line).1 is soft and the other is cracked. I've owned ELAN for over 15yrs and never had to make a repair of this type. I need help. I was planning to ship lap new oak to the old but have only apx 4"-5"before the hull starts to curve. I forgot to mention the frames are gusseted.Also I thought of sister ribbing along the 2 damaged frames. Any input you have would be greatly appreciated. Rich Sank

.

Rich:
Sounds like quite a project. I would sister those ribs rather than try to scarf into them, it will be stronger that way. Also make sure the new planks are well staggered so the butted ends don't line up vertically. Other than that, it sounds like you have the project well in hand. If there are some rot spots that will remain saturate them with antifreeze to kill the rot spores. Good luck and feel free to ask more.------gary

.

Hi Gary,

I am new to the wood sailboat scene so I apologize for my ignorance. A
swing keel 1939 36ft wood sailboat sloop is the what I have been
thinking and preoccupied about. The designer is Frederick Geiger, and
builder was Morris Johnson of Bay Head N.J. The boat has a diesel Water
Mota Sea Panther engine.
At this point I am asking is what are the critical elements I need to
look at in inspecting this boat.

General outside inspection:

1. The wood above the waterline appears fine. There appears to be some
rust mark. It needs repainting.
2. The mast looks solid (made of wood I don't know what type) and tall
with rigging in place (goose neck, forward and aft stringers?, runner,
side rigs, spreaders).
3. I walked on the deck and it appears solid. Some areas have cracks. I
am not sure if the floor was covered with fiberglass?
4. The original port holes look fine. There are areas where paint is
peeling. But floor does not seem to flex.
5. The hatch rim s look fine, some loss of varnish.
6. The stanchion feel solid, the bow pulpit moves a bit.

Cockpit

1. I looked below the cockpit into the back transom, it looks dry and
wood appears clean and solid.
2. The engine looks dirty, greasy and rusty at some parts. The mounts
and wood area around looks solid.
3. The area around where the shaft goes out of the boat looks old. No
water is dripping down. Looks that shaft has not been rotated for
awhile.

Inside

1. The inside definitely needs work. The cabinets were moved around, and
some trims were taken out.
2. The floor planking was removed.
3. I am trying to examine the lower hull for structural integrity. There
is some water but it appears to be coming from the outside going inside
and down the mast and crack above.
4. There are spars? going from each side to the center. There is a
center keel that appears to be darker wood than the other?
5. Some big fat bolts and nuts around this beam or through it?
6. The bilge section toward the back underneath the engine looks fine
with some water.
7. The mast goes down to the hull. It appears solid.
8. The forward section V berth looks dry and fine.
9. The toilet has a pump.
10 I tried examining the water intakes and the valves. I did not try to
turn them incase water started coming in and I couldn't stop it
afterwards.
11. Side of the wall appear dry and solid.
12. I am not sure how the swing keel works. But there is a center table.
The leaves fall side words. A cable from above deck comes down a brass
tube?

Engine

1. The engine has been sitting around for 3 years. The marina said it
was winterized.
2. There appeared to be some water in the oil?
3. The starter is dead so they are trying to get another.
I'll have to see if they can get it to start.
The boat was lifted up last year for cleaning and the marina people said
the hull was fine, and paint was also fine.
Anyway please comment freely about what I have said, especially about
critical wood areas of the boat. I am concerned for instance about the
back section where the shaft comes in. I am afraid the wood might pop
out and water comes in?
If you can answer before Friday would be great since I have to make a
decision by then.
Thanks.
J.B.

.

JB
Certainly sounds like an interesting boat. I would guess it has a centerboard rather than a swing keel for they are rarely found on wooden boats. My best advice is to get a surveyor to check the boat out or at least pay a local boat carpenter to go over the boat. You say you are a wooden boat novice but you have done a commendable inspection of the boat. From what you report, the boat sounds fine and depending on the price may be a good deal. If you can't do what I suggest above, you should acquire a small wood mallet and tap on any areas of the boat that look suspicious. If the wood is sound you will here a high pitched sound, if there is a problem such as rot or delaminated plywood you will here a non resonating thud. Remember fresh water causes rot not salt water so the bottom of the boat is probably sound. You should also be aware that buying a wooden boat changes your life forever. You will fall in love but wood boats are demanding partners and you must enjoy working on them as much as sailing them. Got to www.google.com and type in Geiger sloop. Good luck and I will be glad to answer any specific questions.----------------gary
Ps. On the inside keelson the big fat bolts are probably keel boats, tap them with a metal hammer and hopefully they will ring rather than thud.

.

Gary,
Thanks so much for your lightning reply (much appreciated!).
With your experience. What price for this boat is Not a good deal (being
conservative and assuming worst case scenario)? Above $10k?, or $5k?
Is $3k a good deal?
Thanks!
JB

.

JB
If you can buy a sound professionally built 36ft wood sailboat less than 50 yrs old for under 10 thousand you have a good deal even if it needs some work. Over 10 you would have to consider how much more you would have to spend to make it A-1.
Of course a lot has to do with what you plan to do with the boat, there is a big difference in demand on the boat between a little coastal cruising versus deep water extensive cruising. But for $10,000 or under you can make a mistake and probably recoup your money. If you can get it for 3,000 it's worth it even if you would use it as a front yard decoration.----------------gary

.

Hi Gary,
Yes I have bought the boat (pending they get the diesel engine running). I added a drawing below to help explain what I was describing in my previous email. The issue is about the section where the rib is bolted to a piece of wood, which is bolted onto the keel. The bolts have rusted out in some of these fore foots. Bolting new wood to the rib does not appear to be a problem that I foresee. But I am not sure about bolting the fore footers (sorry if this is not the proper name, I read an article and they were using this terminology) onto the keel. It appears that the head of these vertical bolts were bolted from above. I am assuming they bolted these bolts without penetrating through the keel. I am concerned about having a firm flooring, but more important a structurally strong lower hull.
Can I still bolt the forefoot without having to go deep into the keel.Oak appears to be the wood for this structure from your response. If the existing would is not rotted out but only water logged, can I reuse it. Or better to replace it.
When does one have new keel bolts added? Is this an expensive job.
Can you give me a description of how the garboards are attached to the keel and
what do the keel bolts do and what does the keelson do. This boat has a center board (a drop keel)
Thanks again Gary I appreciate the inputs.
JB
.

JB
Yes, that helps. Congratulations on your purchase. Is the boat in or out of the water? Water logged wood is fine, in fact the original wood in a older boat is probably of better quality grain and strength wise than what we could replace it with. If the wood isn't spongy I wouldn't replace it.
The keel is the protrusion outside the boat, the keelson is the bottom most piece of interior structure inside the boat, it is basically on top of the keel but inside the boat [see drawing]. On sailboats the outside wood keel is called deadwood onto which is usually attached a large lead or iron keel. The metal keel and deadwood are bolted up through the keelson and forefoot [floor timber]. Also the floortimber usually has a couple of driftbolt fastenings which are like long nails. On your boat there probably isn't a metal part to the keel since you have a centerboard. Usually this type of sailboat not having the heavy metal keel to offset the forces on the sails, has some internal ballast to provide a lot of weight at the lowest part of the hull. The centerboard when down does not stabilize the boat but only keeps it from going sideways when sailing off the wind. When motoring or sailing downwind the board is in the up position.
New keelboats in a metal keel boat is difficult and expensive for a variety of reasons, but keelboats through just a wood keel, depending on the length of the bolt needed, is not difficult at all. On a centerboard boat the keelbolts are under little stress compared to the stresses on the keelboats of a metal keel sailboat.
Where the garboard plank joins the keel there is a notch, called a rabbit, in the keel that the plank sits against and is caulked with cotton. The plank itself is fastened at the ribs and into the floors and sometimes the keelson.
I checked out the stsci website, most impressive. What do you do concerning the
hubble telescope? I am a bit of a space nut ---------gary

.

Gary,
Thank you for the congratulation (I am still thinking about the work),and for
your reply and the drawing. I have a better feel of the hull structure.
Its good you got to visit our site at the Hubble Space Telescope. We are an
institute composed of various universities with the goal of performing
astronomical research. I am not an astronomer. I am a science instrument engineer
and part of the engineering team here. I am responsible for the operation and
engineering issues concerning the instruments, making sure our science
instruments are working and performing as designed. Of course they never work
without problems (ps don't tell anyone). The instrument that shows most of the
discoveries to the public is called the Wide Field Planetary Camera. This is the
instrument I have worked with for several years.
Anyway now you know what I do (sorry if it was boring). Sometimes it can be. But
it also gets quite busy when things go wrong or we have a problem. Anyway we try
to do our job well here.
The boat is in the water. I will be getting the design blue prints this weekend
from the marina. Will this help in determining whether and by how much I could
safely screw the forefooters in?
Thanks Gary, Please feel free to ask me anything about Hubble
JB

.

JB
I should have known you were an engineer by your drawing and by the thoroughness of your questions concerning your boat. Yes, the working drawings should give you the thickness of the keel, but when you refer to rebolting the floors, forefoots, this can only be accomplished with the boat hauled out so you can get to the bottom of the keel. Maybe you are referring to lag bolts, which accomplish the same as drift bolt. In order to avoid electrolysis make sure the metal you use is compatible with what metals were used to build the boat. Electrolysis has ruined more wood boats than rot.
Your job sounds quite fascinating and must demand a high degree of precision and little room for compromise. With older wooden boats repair and restoration is a continuous process of compromise, but there are no shortcuts. It is best to stay with the tried and true materials and methods with which the boats were built.
I am sure you take great pride in the Hubble. It has exposed people to the wonderment of space and hopefully with those incredible images broadens our perspective about our own humble relevence. Keep those images coming. Where in the country are you and your boat located?------------gary

.

Gary,

By now all that snow must have melted. Gary that Yawl on your web site is a
real beauty! I can understand now why you love working on these boats. Well in
my mind you guys were still first (next time remind the skipper to be on the
right side).
The saga about my boat buying is still not over. I technically bought it, but I
told the owner at the marina to give me more time. They just got the diesel
engine running the other day. The master mechanic wants to take it out for a
spin. I told him I was going to come along (after all I may be the owner). But
I am wavering whether to go for it, or settle with fiberglass. Sorry if that
word hurts your ears. I love wood boats, but I don't know if the work in the
hull (ribs, footers) is worth the undertaking. I started calling around for my
white oaks, and silicon bronze fasteners.
I did get a hold of the original blue print. I see where the word blue came
from. The paper is practically all dark blue with white lines. I am wondering
what is the best way to fasten the footer on top of the keel (other end bolted
to ribs). There is about 4.5 inches before the iron keel ballast. Also if I
sister the lower section of the frame, is screwing the end to the keel fine?
I'll let you know of any new developments in my boat saga (wife is getting
tired of conversation about boats).
I was able to confirm that the keel is a swing keel. The blue print also shows
it.
JB

.

JB;
I am afraid I was the skipper. Thanks for the update and I am surprised the boat truly has a swing keel rather than a centerboard. The truth of the matter may be your
biting off more than you can comfortably chew. If you were experienced with wood boat restoration and loved doing it than It could be a dream boat, but if you want to go sailing there is nothing wrong with a glass boat with a nice wood tender. I have seen too many good intentioned new wooden boat owners having to walk away in the end because it was just too much. Don't let that happen to you or the boat, or your wife. Keep me informed.--------gary

.

Hi Gary:
I am thinking of buying a 40 foot 1946 wooden boat built by A.C.Benson
of Vancouver, B.C. (builder mainly of tugs). She was apparently built
as one of the WW II coastal patrol fleet. She has a double-planked
hull, yellow cedar, I believe, with the two layers of planks fastened
together with copper rivets. The inner layer of planking is laid
diagonally onto smallish oak ribs, and the outer planks run on the
opposite diagonal below the side guard rubbing strips, and horizontally
above the guard. Around the bow there is a third layer of outer
protective planks.
I have been told that this type of construction is practically
impossible to repair when there is hull plank damage. Could you give me
your opinion on this? This is the main issue in my decision of whether
or not I will buy this boat.
Thanks a lot,
John Segal

.

John:
Sounds like an interesting boat. This type of construction is incredibly strong but as you have heard is more difficult to repair then a traditional carvel planked boat. To fix a small area of damage and achieve structural integrity you need to make a larger hole in the outer planking so as to repair the inner planking. However I would not base my decision to buy or not to buy on this fact alone. The difficult fix is offset by the additional strength which would minimize damage if a mishap occurred. The boats been around a long time attesting to its good construction. If she has no discernible rot don't let the repair difficulty ruin a good thing. Good luck---gary

.

question: Have a 1941 Lightning # 654 built in Erie, Pa.
We have wide gaps in plank of hull which causes leaks during summer use.
CLeaned and recaulked two years ago. Other than leaking (boat is sailed in
Lake Erie near Buffalo) the boat is in good condition.
Considering epoxying but my brother does not think it wise. Other
consideration is thinning caulk to it penetrates planks. Any other suggestions?

.

Hi:
I had a lightening and had many good sails, in fact it was the boat I tried out the mast mate prototype on. When you say it was recaulked does that mean new cotton was put in the seams or just more goop. If the cotton was removed and replaced with high tech goo the boat will continue to leak. You have to have the cotton. If the cotton is there and was properly set and the boat still leaks you may have to put splines in the seams, glued to one edge and caulked tight with cotton to the adjacent edge. Over the years of expansion and contraction the wood gets a bit fatigued and doesn't expand with the force it had in its youth. Epoxy in the seams, other than a glue for the splines, will solve the problem for only very short time and make it much more difficult to fix properly. Here's a hyperlink to the lightening website where you can get many opinions Woody the URL is www.lightningclass.org-good luck--gary

.

Hi, thanks for emailing back to quickly. Yes, the boat was caulked using cotton.
What is a spline and where can it be purchased? Thanks--Sharon

.

Sharon:
Of course I have to ask if someone experienced caulked her? A spline has to be made, its a piece with one side as thick as the seam,and the other side tapered down so you end up with a long beveled piece that looks like this V end on The fat side goes to the inside the thin to the outside. One edge is glued to the plank edge the other is caulked with cotton to the other plank edge. You may need someone familiar with wooden boat carpentry to do this kind of work. Also, you don't say if the boat remains in the water or you have it on a trailer and it spends a good deal of time dry. If the latter is true your leakage problem could be solved by keeping some wet towels draped over the inside planking when the boat is out of the water. Hope this helps--------------gary.

.

Forgot to mention, yes someone very experienced caulked the boat.....but I don't know if he is aware of the option you listed below, I will pass on ....thanks so much!!
We may have an additional question regarding the Centerboard.
Sharon

.

Sharon:
OK, feel free to ask away. I had to rebuild the centerboard trunk on mine. Have your husband check out the forum at the lightening website-----www.lighteningclass.org--------gary
question: I have a 1952 vertue, The boat is very strong but a recent problem has stumped me. On a starboard tack I will separate planks on the port side below the waterline directly even with the mast support. After I was back in port I tighten the starboard rigging slightly and I produced the same result. 1st I am not sure what is causing the problem; frame to plank construction, the mast step, ect... 2nd I am not sure what to do about it; should reinforce to frames at the spot on the leaks possibly adding a short rib. I am not sure what to do.
thank you
Joe

.

Joe:
Nice boat.The first thing is to keep your rigging just taught, not tight. Basically under sale the forces at hand are trying to push the mast through the bottom of your boat. The lowest plank called the garboard is fastened to the keelson and this joint being the closest to where the mast is stepped, takes tremendous stress. If this joint has not been recaulked, with cotton, in years and or the fastenings are loose, it will leak. I would sail the boat with less tension on the standing rigging and see if it still leaks. If it does you have to haul the boat and check the garboard fastenings and recaulk with cotton. If the fastenings are bad there, they probably are bad everywhere and refastening the entire bottom maybe necessary. Not as bad a job as it sounds. Hope this helps and if you need to ask more feel free. -----------gary

.

question: I have a 1956 Chris Craft Sedan Cruiser. It is double-planked mahogany below the water line, with batten-planked mahogany above.
I have been told the original double-planked construction relied on a bedded canvas membrane between the two layers, with no caulk between the planks on the outer layer. I need to replace some bottom planks, inner and outer, and need to scarf in a new section of chine. I can't find any trace of the canvas layer. The boat has been out of the water for a couple of years, and the bottom planks have gaps of 1/8" to 1/4", which have been filled with some kind of rubbery caulk. Can I epoxy splines between the bottom planks to take up some or all of the gap, or would this cause problems?

.

Hi;
Nice boat you have. It is not advisable to spline bottom seams especially on a boat that has been high and dry for a while, use a flexible compound, like putty or roofing cement to fill the seams. The planks will swell and force most of it out of the seam. Do not use a polysulfide like 5200 to caulk the seams, you'll never get it out and it to will inhibit the seams from swelling. I would use the wet dry roofing cement in between the planks, with canvas or without. The roofing cement is not only cheap, the toredo worms hate it, guess it doesn't taste to good. If you have further questions feel free to ask.--------------gary

.

Dear Mr. Wheeler,
My husband and I are looking seriously at a 1961 Cooper MY with a raised
pilothouse. The boart was constructed in British Columbia on the Frazier
River at the Cooper boat yard which still exists, but now owned by
Queenship.

This boat appears to be a one of a kind and the only Cooper MY made of wood
seen by many brokers in the WA, OR area.
The boat is need of extensive restoration but it is the hull that seriously
needs attention.
It has been in fresh water for a known 15 years. It has been 10 years since
its last bottom painting. There does not appear to be any signs of fastener
bleeders on the side, even thogh the paint is peeling now. In addition there
are several bad planks. Some of the ends have rotted away on planks above
the waterline towards the back near the transom. The hull is mahogony and I
have not gotten an accurate measurement of plank thickness or rib size as of
yet. Estimates on Honduras mahogony have been made and I have found a well
priced source of wood in Seattle, a boat yard for do-it-yourselfers near
where the boat is located presently.
I would like to know about replanking such a boat. The present owner built
houses for over 40 years and he says it is no big deal. When talking to
various yars they want a whole lot of money for replanking and indicate that
it is not that easy.
It is doubleplanked below the water line for sure, it appears to be single
planked above. It seems as though using epoxy for gluing the edges and onto
the ribs may be an option when adding new ones. There seems to be lots of
great caulking products, rot treaments and fillers and so forth. Is it that
hard to shape 12 and 16 foot planks on a fairly stright sided boat? The
chine area seem OK so for as we have checked.
Is cutting the bevels really hard? How do you do this, what tools are best.
Seeing is knowing more and if we could see it done we could better estimate
whether we could do the work ourselves. We know however it would be too
expensive to have someone else do it the work. Bottom line, if someone does
not do this work very soon, she will be lost to the world and she really is
beautiful. The current owner is too ill to do this project and it was his
dream to do it. She is unique and beautiful, please advise. Cecilia.

.

Cecilia:
First, spend the money for a good marine survey so you really know what you are getting into, all wooden boats can be rebuilt, the only limitation is cost and or time . There is nothing magical or prohibitive in re-plankig or general restoration. There are no specialized tools except possibly for the caulking tools but also there are no good shortcuts such as using hi-tech goos or epoxy. The basics are best and rebuilding a boat using the same methods and materials as when it was built is the only way to go. It's a big commitment, a true labor of love but well worth it. I need more specific particulars about the boats overall condition to say anything more of use. Here are two books I recommend, both by Peter Spectre---Frames, Stem and Keel Repairs and Planking and Refastening both available as a package deal from Amazon.com for about $50. Keep me up to date and feel free to throw more questions my way.---------------------gary

.

question: hi gary, what is the word on ice sheathing (narrow planking)over the main planks? Would irish felt under be the thing and with tar? I'd be afraid of the tar seeping on thoughs warm days.would you screw or nail the shield to the underlying planks only or through to the frames? would really like your thoughs on this. thanks dave

.

Hi:
What I have seen between the planking on double planked boats is canvas and bedding compound but I would think tar and Irish felt would be fine. For repair purposes, screws are always preferable over nails [use a similar metal to the main plank fasteners] and if the underplanking is in good shape attaching just to it would be adequate. However, if the purpose of this shield is structural rather than just protective you should fasten to the frames as well as install the shield as strip planking i.e. each pieced coved and fitted, edged nailed and glued to each other, a much bigger job but one that has saved many older wood boats from the chainsaw. Hope this helps, ask more if needed. Good luck---------gary

.

Hello My name is Rich and have a problem that seems only to be in the engine room. I've owned E'lan for 15 years and developed this fuzz on the int. planking of the engine room some time ago but didn't know how to go about fixing it. Before bring the boat to the N.E. 2yrs. ago someone suggested scraping and then spraying it with denatured alcohol. The fuzz came back. The hull is white cedar on oak frames single planked. can you help? Thanks Rich

.

Rich;
You have an electrolysis problem. Most likely the engine ground or the battery is leaking current into the hull. This current aided by the salt water environment is increasing the electrolytic interaction between the plank fasteners and other submerged dissimilar metals. I first noticed this wood fuzziness around through
hull fittings on wood boats. This problem was resolved by proper grounding of the through hulls plus proper placement of sacrificial zinc's. I would suggest you find someone in your area that deals with electrolysis and have them check out your electrical system and sacrificial zinc placement. Just adding more zincs can make it worse. Also if your boat is kept in a marina that has liveaboards there could be stray current coming from other boats and extension wires in the water that would exacerbate your problem. Get this resolved because eventually electrolysis will break down the wood fibers.--------------good luck-------gary

.

Hey Gary I forgot to ask how do I treat the planks after the electrical problem is solved?

.

Rich:
Because of the cell fiber breakdown you need to stiffen the fibers up before you can sand them down. I would use a wood sealer, then sand lightly and, if you want, paint---g

.

Something like coupernal?

.

Rich;
No, that is more of a preservative, good stuff but for this you want an acrylic sealer available in any paint store. Actually, if you are going to paint it with an oil based paint just add some thinner to the 1st coat and sand afterwards and skip the sealer-------g

.

question: Gary, i am restoring an 1960 45' chris craft connie, and have a question about the seams in the hull. thge hull was sandblasted to remove the old paint and such. i have sistered the fasteners with on izs larger bronze screws, each bedded in 5200. the blaster removed ed old cotton caulking along with the paint. my question is would your roofing tar workin the seams without replacing the cotton. i plan to fiberglass the hull using Allan Vaitses method. thanks chuck
.

Chuck;
Nice boat. No, you wouldn't use the tar in that way, in fact, if you are going to fiberglass the bottom, one would normally epoxy wood splines in the seams. I am not sure why you are going to fiberglass since you have already refastened all you have left is to recaulk with cotton and seam compound. Fiberglass over Carvel planked boats has a way of separating from the hull after a bit of use. I am not familiar with the Allan Vaitses method. Where on the net would I get some info on it?Ask more if need be---------------if not ----good luck with your project---gary

.

Thanks Gary i really appreciate your helping. my problem is find some one to
do the cotton in the seams. i thought that it would be a very expensive job.
Vaitses is not on the web ,ifound his book thru Amazon . is there a video
on doing the cotton/ thanks chuck
.

Chuck:
Your welcome. Where are you located? It would be much better for the boat to caulk it rather than glassing and there is no magic to caulking except having experience doing it. It's not a book thing, it's a feel thing. You need to find someone in your area that knows how to do it and have them give you a few lessons. If you are in a boating area there are those about that have experience. Check the local boatyards or the bars down on the waterfront.--------------------gary

.

Thanks Gary, the boat is Port Charolette Fla. chuck

.

Chuck:
Well, I am not close enough to do you any good, but I am sure you can find a local who can show you what to do------------------gary

.

question: Gary, is it possible that 1960 45' chris craft connie would not have cotton in the seams, and that a good seam filler is all that is needed before bottom paint? thanks chuck

.

Chuck:
Yes, Some Chris Craft carvel planked boats had inside battens running the length of each plank. These battens are bedded and screwed to the adjacent planks making the seam watertight as well as giving the hull rigidity, fulfilling the same purpose as cotton in the seams. Although, the sand blasting would take out some of the cotton, there should be some left in some seams. If the seams had cotton they would be beveled like so >, otherwise like so = and a cotton caulked seam would be a bit wider than a matched seam. If your boat has been out of water a long time the seams would have opened considerably and will need a lot of swelling. If the seams are matched without cotton, the roofing cement tar is a cheap way to go since most of it will be pushed out as the seam swells, but regular underwater seam compound [ Interlux} would be preferable.Check the inside of the boat for the battens. Let me know what you discover.------------------gary

.

man you made my day!!! no cotton. thanks chuck

.

Chuck:
Appears so, but there are some areas that will have been caulked and should be recaulked if the cotton is gone. The seam along the transom and along the bow and along the chines and the seam at the garboard plank i.e. the seam next to the keel. It shouldn't cost too much to have those done-----gary

.

question: Gary,
My names Rob from Sydney, and am interested in a semi-restored 26 foot spotted gum timber recreational/party/fishing boat built around the 1950's. The cabin, decks & cockpit have all been recently replaced with celery top pine. She's powered by a rebuilt Perkins 6354 Deisel and i'm told the vessell weighs about 7 tonne. Originally built as an agrigultural fishing vessell.
My only concern is several (approx 6) cracked ribs, located behind the engine, towards the stern. They have cracked at the sharp bend into the bilge area. I'm told its built like a brick outhouse, but am concerned, particulary with taking her on deep sea day fishing adventures. If you have time i'd love to hear from you. Rob
p.s Is she overpowered ?

.

Rob;
Sounds like a tough old boat and by your description she doesn't seem overpowered. Although, memory alone could probably hold her together, you should sister those ribs just to put your mind at ease when your 20 miles off shore in a blow. To avoid similar breakage over time, it would be best to laminate up the ribs. Over the last year I have been assisting, in advice only, a sailor named Warwick in Brisbane who has taken on a project not unlike yours albeit a sailboat and a more extensive rebuild. Since I am not familiar with the woods of Australia nor the availability of epoxy etc., it might be good if you emailed him at--fords@iprimus.com.au. You can review his project on my website--go to Questions and then to Dialogues with Warwick or use this hyperlink carmen.html . Please ask more of me as needed and have fun with your classic--------gary

.

question: hello gary,
i have recently purchased a beautiful 1938 wishbone ketch that is in need of hull repair and minor topside t.l.c. the latter i will probably be fine with , however, the hull is what i am inquiring about. the boat was buily by Nordbjerg in copenhagen in '38. she is built on very solid white oak frames, with fir planking, and fastened with galvenized iron fasteners. i have received alot of ideas from others about her hull repair, some saying glass the hull or use the hull as a mold for veneer. most however, think a traditional replanking is surely the best way to go.
she needs approximately 10 planks replaced near her stern section and a total refastening all mostly below the waterline. my question(or my 1st question for now) is what do you think my best coarse of action would be...?
p.s. she is 50' with an lwl of 40' and 11'6 beam

.

Hi;
Sounds like a great boat. I would certainly go with traditional plank replacemennt and refastening. The reason a carvel planked boat is built the way it is is just for this reason, so it can be fixed. I would be glad to assist you as you proceed on your worthy adventure. If you were around Rockland Maine I would give you a hand-----------------gary

.

hello again gary, we actually purchased STORMSVALA from a couple from
rockland namely stacy and larry palmer who were very helpful in all aspx of
our purchase, being the boats history or renovation advice regarding our
new home.
i have read your forum alot lately and have found your advice to be
extremely beneficial . we have definately decided to go traditional and are going to go over the
entire hull within the next few days and find out exactly what we've got
ourselves into. the boat is now on stands in camp ellis beach on 8 stands and 1
bowstand(shes chubby....45 tons) i am a builder/remodeler with a desire to
bring this boat back to its potential while keeping her as original as
possible. my question to you would be what steps would you take to embark
on this project. do i need to build her a surrounding now or in a month or
so(i would much rather do as much work to her hull while she is wide open
than to be confined if i dont have to be.)? i have read pages of info on
plank removal but wondered if you had some good advice on this endeavor,
mainly finding the planks that need to go and analyzing the hull itself
what to look for etc. i have tons of work to do and would like to keep myself in some order of
disorder and figured you had probably seen this process before and could
give me some direction. thanks for your immediate response and your interest, and hopefully with some of your knowledge Stormsvala can sail back into rockland harbor where
she was given up on years ago.
p.s. there is another wishbone ketch of the same design and builder in
rockland out front of sams boatyard(?) this ketch is 40 feet long and i
would like to contact its owner for sail plans etc.

.

Bill&Kristen;
Small world, so where is camp ellis beach? Well, as you have planned, the first thing is to make a good structural survey of the hull and determine what needs replacing and fixing and determine a sensible sequence of accomplishing what can be done in the time alotted with the money available. The biggest mistake usually made is to take on too much all at once where fixing the most urgent and spreading the rest over time is more realistic. Boatyards are full of old woodies torn all apart and abandoned when time and or money ran out. I would not cover up the boat until absolutely necessary and get as much outside work done as possible. My first structural concern would be the frames for there is no sense in redoing planks if there is nothing to fasten them to. Planks usually only have to be replaced if they suffer from rot, caused by iron fastening rot , electrolysis rot or good old fresh water rot, or if they have been damaged. Refastening is no big deal but you have to make sure the planks are sitting tight to the ribs for if the are not you have to pull all the caulking including the cotton or oakum. In most cases when the planks have been fastened with steel or iron , getting them off in one piece is difficult, usually best to just split them out. So, get out the sounding hammer and ice pick and see what's what and let me know. Feel free to call as well as email. Also I don't know the ketch or boatyard you are referring to in Rockland, can you be a bit more descriptive about its location and I'll see if I can track down the owner---------gary.

When building a boat of Carvel planking, must you
leave a space between planks to insert the packing material?
Or:
Do you mate the planks tight against each other and pack just
where ever you see spaces?
Someone told me to angle the planks edge so you can wedge fit
the packing...???? TY.

.

Ty;
You need to get the book called Boatbuilding by Howard Chapelle which gives a detailed overview of all types of wooden boat construction. But to answer your specific question about carvel planking, it is true that the seams between the planks must have a cotton or oakum filling in order to keep the hull both flexible and watertight. The open seams must be beveled to the inside > so the material can be tapped in without driving it through to the inside of the boat. Caulking the seam takes some experience for you want to place the cotton or oakum in the middle of the seam because the seams water tightness is dependent on the wood in the seam swelling around the material and forming a gasket. The true advantage of a carvel planked boat over some easier forms of wood construction is its simplicity in being repaired. Hope this helps---------gary

question: We have a 1961 Cheoy Lee-built carvel planked yawl. The planks are 7/8" end-grained teak. No short planks, original bronze nails/copper rivets, 1.5" x 1.5" oak ribs. The teak hull is oiled. The original +40 year old oakum and cotton caulking is still intact and apparently functional in most of the plank seams, but in places has worked its way out, has been removed or has rotted out (due to the sealant cracking out). For the past several years the boat was moored (in salt and fresh water) in a relatively humid climate (Seattle). A year ago we purchased the boat and moved it to Lake Coeur d'Alene, in north Idaho where the summers are hot and dry (85-95 degrees and ~10% humidity versus 60-80% in Seattle)and the winters are cold and wet (avg winter temperature is around 32 degrees). After we moved it we have noted a significant amount of shrinkage and associated leak development along numerous seams (this most most noticeable after somebody hit our boat moored in its!
slip)which loosened much of the already failing brittle sealing compound (no obvious frame damage thankfully) I have removed most of the old sealant (chalk and linseed oil and occasional strip of silkaflex or similar goo) and am going to recaulk with oakum and cotton all the open seams ( a first time caulker). However, there are a number of areas where the sealant had failed and allowed rot to develop along the seams and at the butt-end of the planks, with some gaps as large as 1/2 inch. In several cases the rotted areas are up against oak blocks riveted on the inside of the planking. Several of the blocks are essentially butt joint support blocks and I assume where original based on the riveting, age and placement. It is obvious some rot has worked its way into the blocks. What is the best approach if the bulk of the block is intact? Should I inject epoxy into the back of the butt joint and into the block after removing the rot as best I can? Then finish the exterior par!
t of the plank butt joint with traditional caulking methods, epoxy or a synthetic? The same holds true for an area on the transom where there is 1-2" of rot damage to the underside of the 4" x 6" oak keelson adjacent to the sternpost where it comes in contact with the transom planking. I will be scarfing or replacing the keelson once I get the old bolts out. However, where this damage occurred there are numerous gaps in the planks here in the order of 1/2" to 1" over lengths as long as 18"-20." Most all are now filled with a chalky-type but weakly flexible caulking compound topped with a harder epoxy type material or paint that is brittle, fractured and will be dug out. For these large wide gaps is oakum a suitable fix or should they be epoxied or should I use another type of sealant? Pretty much every seam in the transom will need to be filled (one can see daylight through most all of them). Removing/replacing the planking is out since they are long planks and would requi!
re a serious amount of refastening and outside of the open seams they are in good sound shape.
Finally, considering we have extreme changes in temperature and humidity what is your suggestion as to the longest lived seam compound or mix for finshing the oakum/cotton caulked seams. We us